Is this installation considered acceptable today? (1-ring including oven and everything else)

[Iain Kay]

Looking for some advice on what I've discovered is the electrics situation in my rental property.

I'll note that before I moved in here I made the Letting agents (LA) more than aware I use an absolute -----ton of power. I told them I can and will be pulling 2,000-4,000 kWh a quarter (with gas hob and heating). No concerns raised.

When I moved in here it looked promising. CU had no spare slots, plenty of MCBs and RCD protection in place. Nice one I thought, 4x 32A MCBs, good chance we've got a couple of rings and kitchen will be on its own. As it turns out, nope.

I haven't removed the cover, so I have not been able to confirm what connections we have inside the CU but I can confirm my findings in terms of what the resulting circuits are.

1) 16A - Does nothing
2) 16A - Radial to water heater switch, on to a switch in the living room that's got a single GU10 lamp installed in a unit coming from it. (Water heater removed some time ago)
3) 6A - Smoke alarms [Issue: One not receiving mains power but clearly wired into the trunking containing this circuit so should be]
4) 6A - Lights (Kitchen, Bathroom, Master Bedroom)
5) 6A - Lights (Lounge, Hallway, Second bedroom)

So far so good, this looks great, other than the oddity of feeding the GU10 lamp from the previously installed radial, but makes sense as this terminates inside the bottom of the unit containing the GU10 so just laziness prevails.

6) 32A - Does nothing
7) 32A - Does nothing
8) 32A - ALL sockets (Lounge, hallway, kitchen, oven, boiler, master bedroom, second bedroom)
9) 32A - Shower
10) 40A - Does nothing

Not so good. We have a single 32A ring covering everything including the bloody oven, washing machine, tumble dryer and the rest of the gaff on top!

Why the hell install all of those 32A MCBs to do sweet F all?

I've confirmed this is definitely the case by killing off the circuits in almost every possible order and I can see that nothing else is getting a complete circuit to these circuits enabling power to flow.


Now for the big question.

I did some maths here and it looks like this is seriously overloaded pretty much any time we're using the kitchen pretty heavily (most nights...).

A typical evening in the house consists of washing and drying lasting 3-4 hours, concurrently (4.6kW total), whilst over the course of this the oven will be put on (7.8kW total) and often a hair dryer (8.8kW total) and kettle (11.8kW total) too. Admittedly the last two are far shorter use, but this is seriously over the rating for this circuit and I don't feel it's over the top usage of a house.

Let's add up purely the kitchen during a typical wash and prepare meal:
2,550W - 3,000W - Kettle
900W - Toaster
80W - Fridge
125W - Boiler
2,200W - Washing Machine
2,400W - Tumble dryer
3,200W - Oven

Not all of this will be on all the time but lets assume this is peak before taking into account any of the rest of the property.

11,455W or 11.45kW best case, 11.8kW worst case. Now my 32A circuit should not be over 7.2kWh and probably not over 5.76kW for extended periods.

Then we get to two HDR tellys on pretty much all the time, set top boxes, server, multiple PCs with multiple monitors connected, PoE Switches and networking gear, smart home gear and when I am using it I often have a lab set up with multiple PCs which is where we get to the 4kW/quarter.

Right now, I'm concerned that before we even cover the devices used throughout the house, the kitchen alone (well counting the hall cupboard with tumble dryer) is pulling 159% - 164% of the rated load on this circuit.


I know that the best practise for a single ring can be based upon property size, not certain of the specs here though.

I'm unsure of the sq footage of the entire property but I'd say it isn't particularly small. We're looking at 165 sq feet in the master bedroom alone.

Should I be raising this with the LA and pushing to get this sorted out so that at very least the oven is moved to its own radial circuit and preferably get the rest of the kitchen moved over to its own ring too?

Would you suggest it's worth myself looking at spurring off this 16A radial to get an extra couple of sockets, capable of at least 13A, running in the living room that won't be on this single ring?

The 32A to the shower is currently running into the hall cupboard where there is an isolator switch. The sockets in there are on the main ring and contain my comms cabinet and the tumble dryer. The comms cabinet won't use a huge amount, although does have quite a few devices and PoE switch providing power to WiFi, VoIP phones and some smart home devices. Is there anything I could do to take power off this? Either going with a fused spur or a Garage CU that then splits into the shower and extra sockets? (I know this will require notification and a competent installer doing it).


Any thoughts from the pros would be greatly appreciated here as I'm not sure if it would be considered enough of a problem to have a LA take action, however, way I see it I'm constantly stressing this system beyond what it was intended for with no idea how the wiring quality in the walls is, so it's a concern, whether or not the LA will do anything or not I'm not sure and I don't want to raise it without getting some professional opinions.

 

[The Ghost]

So surely my currently measly load could not be causing such an inrush?

I think to answer those questions you need to attend a course. Guessing and half cocked understandings/conclusions are not really the way to go. With the greatest of respect I would suggest you stick to computing where I assume your abilities and competence lie. Get an electrician in to distribute the load properly at your expense with the permission of the Landlord. Put your computing on a separate supply from the CU spare way so that they become fairly bullet proof. With that amount of equipment you are describing your real problem may lay in the fact that you need different types of RCD as the DC dumped on to the circuit may cause hystereses of the RCD (does not function properly in fault conditions). You may need a type A instead of the usual AC type fitted in domestic premises. There is far more to this than you are soley considering.

 

[davesparks]

I found bayonet cap fixtures with exposed metal in every bedroom, replaced them obviously. Some so damaged the bulbs would not have held for long.

I found the washing machine to do nothing other than turn on, no controls worked and it just spun constantly.

Did you have permission to replace the lamp holders and are you properly insured to do this?

The lettings agency for my house won’t allow me to do any small repair like this without providing a copy of my insurance and I’ve found this to be the norm with most of them.

 

[davesparks]

The load described is more than anyone would reasonably expect for a domestic installation in a two bed flat. If asked to design an installation for a 2 bed flat I certainly wouldn’t design for that kind of load without specific instructions to do so.

To power that much IT equipment properly you will likely need circuits designed for high protective conductor currents with appropriate high integrity earthing.

 

[davesparks]

I really don't want to have power cutting out all of the time on my gear though, lost too many PSUs to that and that's the best case, so for now I've really kept things to the minimum.

If power cuts are damaging the equipment then surely you have a case against the manufacturer for supplying equipment which is unfit for purpose.

Or maybe if the equipment is that sensitive a UPS would be a sensible consideration

 

[The Ghost]

I'm just saying that right now I can't turn off my MCB and turn it back on again.

That fact may point to another problem not load. Or are you saying you had the toaster, washing machine, tumble dryer, oven and all other equipement going when trying to switch on under load? And was you computer equipment part of the load. Or in other words how much load was on the circuit when you tried to switch off and on?

 

[marconi]

Ian Kay - there has been some really good advice ( all at no cost to you) from experienced experts. The property has a satisfactory installation for the typical tenant's electrical requirement. You have an extraordinary IT electrical requirement which I reckon needs a properly designed and installed electrical supply (including UPS and filtering maybe) which is beyond what the LA is contracted (or is reasonable for them) to supply at their cost. The long and the short of (it seems to me) is that the dedicated wiring for you to run your IT equipment is for you to fund once you have the LA's agreement to install it. It is for the LA to appoint an electrician to do the design, installation and testing and inspection. The LA then bills you. Consider though that the LA may want the new wiring removed and the property made good when you quit, once again at your expense - it depends on what it looks like.

 

[Iain Kay]

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

Clearly my level of understanding of the maths at play here is not up to scratch to make an informed decision myself.

This is why I wanted to pose it to the pros because I felt that there is a problem here but knew that in all likelihood my thinking is almost certainly flawed, but couldn't see it.

I think that a lot of responders are right, a dedicated circuit for the computing equipment with some UPS protection is likely the best course of action. I've been looking into UPS but again wanted to know what I was working with power wise before going ahead with anything there.

If I move everything into the hall cupboard then it should be a relatively minimal job for an electrician, appointed by LA, to run a circuit from the CU which is within meters of the cupboard.

I think that this is the route to go, and given that I did make the LA aware of my requirements I'd like to hope they will accommodate it given it's a long term lease, albeit potentially fully at my own expense which I did expect anyway and doesn't differ from me wanting to do this in an owned property.

Just disappointing there's not already more in place here, as I say it's a strangely minimal configuration for me to encounter.

Will contact LA about my concerns and see what we can come up with.

Thanks again, really appreciate all of the advise and I will read over all of it again.

 

[Iain Kay]

I think to answer those questions you need to attend a course. Guessing and half cocked understandings/conclusions are not really the way to go. With the greatest of respect I would suggest you stick to computing where I assume your abilities and competence lie. Get an electrician in to distribute the load properly at your expense with the permission of the Landlord. Put your computing on a separate supply from the CU spare way so that they become fairly bullet proof. With that amount of equipment you are describing your real problem may lay in the fact that you need different types of RCD as the DC dumped on to the circuit may cause hystereses of the RCD (does not function properly in fault conditions). You may need a type A instead of the usual AC type fitted in domestic premises. There is far more to this than you are soley considering.

Thanks for this Vortigern. You are right on that, my knowledge here is not enough to give me an answer.

As I gain more I will maybe look back on this and laugh at myself :/

Thanks again.

 

[littlespark]

In defence of my post #10, and the response on #14, the OP has stated since that the circuit has tripped.
I also said the OP would be told he was overloading the circuit, which he probably has.

The OP is in Edinburgh? so an EICR should have been done before the tenancy started, the tenant has the right to see that.

We don't know, from afar, what may have happened in this property, but it still looks strange having such a big CU with so many spare ways.

 

[Iain Kay]

Hey again all,

I've got ahold of an Appliance Testing Certificate dated 12/09/2017 covering: Oven, Gas hob, Cookerhood, Washing machine and Fridge.
All passed visual inspection, all ">50 Pass" and all status pass.

Also an EICR dated 12/09/2017. Overall assessment of the installation in terms of it's suitability for continued use: Satisfactory.

If you feel any of the particulars would be interesting, let me know what and I'd be happy to share.

Edit: I've been reading over this and this contradicts my fairly concrete findings.

Specifically "16. Schedule of circuit details and test results"

This implies that there are two socket circuits with B32s. This is not the case at all as far as thse connections go because everything is turned off when I operate a single B32.

According to this page the shower should be on the B40 but it's on the B32.

It looks like this I can indeed raise as this is not operating as per the EICR reports it should.

 

[Octopus]

^^

What do you mean I have got a hold of ?

This is getting smelly imho

 

[Iain Kay]

^^

What do you mean I have got a hold of ?

This is getting smelly imho

Nothing fishy, it's been handed over by LA at some point over the course of moving in but probably due to my somewhat rushed organisation I did not have this with any of the other documentation I received.

Found a copy in a random envelope also containing the inventory.

Wish I'd found this sooner as it's definitely not matching up with my findings which only makes me want to query things more.

Contains full "details of the client" matching my LA and "address and details of the installation" match my rental.

 

[littlespark]

now it sounds fishy. EICR says 2 rings.
Have you made a mistake when you turned off the circuit... did all sockets go off?

Purely imagination here... faulty MCB in the past, and the electrician at the time doubled them up to get them running again.... but why when theres so many spare ways?

 

[Iain Kay]

The MCB in position 13 is clearly labelled as the second socket ring on the EICR but it's operating the shower.

I turn on the shower, flip that B32 off, boom showers off.

The B40 that is supposed to be shower, it's been flipped off for a few days since I tested this and the showers worked fine since.

It's as if the B40 has gone bad and somebody has wired the two rings into position 12 and shower into 13 without swapping MCBs to be honest.

 

[littlespark]

As I mentioned earlier, an EICR should be performed between tenancys to pick up on tenants "repairing" faults like this.
Is the inventory you unsurfaced dated the same? or have you not got the current one.
Bring it up with LA, im sure they will give answers