Lack of skill

[rantoftheday]

Whats with the extremely poor standard of sparky work these days?

Sorry but I really feel as if the craftmanship of an electrician has been sadly lost

The company I work for has around 30 sparks of which 23 or so are completely useless, maybe 4 are decent and 2 or 3 spot on

It just seems that people dont give a damn as long as what they are installing works, bugger the regs, testing results are fabricated rarely see a bit of containment installed properly do people really not take their jobs seriously or uis it just me?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I dont have a problem as such with folk looking after themselves but when their actions have a dire effect (in later times) upon a nation and indeed even an entire continent then i think its time for em to walk the plank (literally)......whe`l see how much the media gushes about that one...lol.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Looking through the direct.gov website earlier a qualified sparks with 2391 hourly rate £12.50,a scaffolder £15,lol that just says it all.may as well take my head off remove brain,go to gym,build some muscles and throw some scaffy around for £15 an hour.with all the solar pv going on thats not a bad idea lol

This empty head neigbour next to my mothers house is a steelfixer and probably on similar cash........but you try holding a conversation with him......might as well talk to a bottle of pop or summat......no really...thats how thick he is....definately couldn`t get his head around what were doing (sparkying)....lol..........

 

[Des 56]

Thank you guys,a very interesting read was that,real life experiences and sound reasoning by all

We all are aware of the trades dumb down,its the politicians themselves that reflect this trend to its utmost

Leave aside for a moment party persuasion and look at the typical candidate of any of the parties and compare with what was

A conservative candidate was generally from a relatively well to do family or/and area,he was groomed in the role of a busniess manager.owner or executive
He took that business experience and entered politics with that wealth of understanding,he would usually be a leader type in business and so on in the political world

A Labour candidate was generally from a poor family or area,he was groomed in the fight for living standards and opportunity for the people in his community,he worked,became involved with union issues and progressed if he was top notch,on into the political arm the Labour party,with real life issues as his weapon

The candidate of today,of either party goes to school, then on to study politics at uni,becomes a private secretary to a standing guru and progresses to be a candidate and an eventual MP
No experience of business,no experience of real life or hardship, or how to overcome the burdens of life or business

These are the leaders who we hope may put the great back in skilled,are we kidding ourselves,they govern as they have been taught themselves,quick fast inexperienced and useless

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, but get the gist of whats being said.

I have to agree partly it is down to the standard of training. I have been training 16- 19 year old NVQ L1&2 students now for nearly 8 weeks. They have almost completed Level 1. The first assessment job they had to undertake was an intermediate lighting circuit, this they did after about 10 or 11 smaller exercises which gave them the ability, experience, and skill. They work from measurements given to them by me, and a sketch and wiring diagram drawn by themselves, they also have to request all the correct materials and tools to carry the job out, and it has to be done to the 17th regs as well. Just for good measure i also walk them through the correct testing procedure for initial verification, and then let them repeat it under supervision. They got a lot of satisfaction from inspecting and testing their own work, fixing the faults and seeing it work. One lad has commented, his mate who is 18 has been an apprentice for 2 years and he has never had to fill in an Electrical Installation Certificate, schedule of inspections and results, and doesnt even know what they are. They have now moved onto 3 phase motor control, DOL, FWD/REV and for their assessment they have to do a star/delta, these are all built and wired from scratch, you should see their faces light up when the motor spins.

Cheers............Howard

 

[Knobhead]

I’d love to be there with you Howard, it’s great to see!

Then you just stand back with that “I told you it would work” look.

Then you bowl the body-line, tell me how it works!

 

[UNG]

It says it all when one of the advertisements on this forum offers training to "become an electrician in as little as 8 weeks". When I started 8 weeks wouldn't have scratched the surface of the knowledge I gained in five years as an apprentice and many years on I'm still learning

 

[Rockingit]

I actually went to one of these 6/8/10 week providers just to sit my 2391 a while back, figured it was as good an option as any. Boy oh boy, some of the people there that I got chatting to over coffee who were doing the whole beginners cramming thing.....now, I'm neither ageist nor sexist, but when a 50-ish year old woman is sat trying to learn Ohm's law, it kind of begs a conversation...

'Oh', she says 'I got bored with teaching and thought I'd give it a go, see how I get on. The maths and science is all fine, and I can sit exams no problem.' 'So', says me, 'have you done any construction or practical training to go with this?'. 'Well, I can put up shelves and I redecorated my house' came the reply.

The coffee in the machine wasn't strong enough for me to continue.

 

[Rockingit]

Tommy Walsh has a lot to answer for!! :86:

 

[Knobhead]

It says it all when one of the advertisements on this forum offers training to "become an electrician in as little as 8 weeks". When I started 8 weeks wouldn't have scratched the surface of the knowledge I gained in five years as an apprentice and many years on I'm still learning

UNG, tell me when you’ve learnt enough.

2[SUP]nd[/SUP] thoughts one of us will be pushing up daisies before that ever happens.

I’ve retired from the trade now but now I’ve got time to read, I learn something every day from this and other engineering sites. I will say this is the best site for practical things, the others are more academic and not as much fun!

 

[baldelectrician]

There is a lack of care and skill all over- it's not just the 5 week wonders.

I have 2 guys wanting work experience,

One is a THIRD year JIB registered trainee (done 3 years at college) who doesn't know theory, can't undersatand lighting wiring (domestic) and connected a light switch on and put the earth in a block connector- plastic switch and METAL back box.
The guy is keen, but I get the impression isn't really interested- if he was he would be studying his onsite guide and making notes, but I keep having to go over the basics again and again

The other guy has NO site experience and 5 weeks at college- he is understanding the basics of lighting and picking up more than the other guy has in 3 years.

It's all about skill and attitude

 

[UNG]

UNG, tell me when you’ve learnt enough.

2[SUP]nd[/SUP] thoughts one of us will be pushing up daisies before that ever happens.

It isn't going to happen in my lifetime spend I too much time looking for and being given new challenges which need new skills or knowledge

I’ve retired from the trade now but now I’ve got time to read, I learn something every day from this and other engineering sites. I will say this is the best site for practical things, the others are more academic and not as much fun!

Don't think I'll ever retire can't sit still for long enough

 

[UNG]

I have got to say the lack of skill is not only in the electrical industry

A mate of mine has been complaining to a main dealer about an ongoing intermitant fault on his car. Now it's out of it's 3 year warranty and nearly 4 years old he has just had it serviced by an mobile independent mechanic who identified the fault in less time than it took to make him a brew and it was all done with his vehicle computer diagnostic equipment even though the dealer said his equipment showed no faults which was correct reading the sensor information screen showed up the problem

 

[vaughant]

I'm not sure I'll win many friends with this post but what constitutes a "good spark"?I've never really got that,does it mean a good spark is the one who's the neatest?does it mean the one who's the fastest?
I'm looking for a little bit of back up from my industrial control friends here but to me the "best" sparks are the ones who can identify the CAUSE of the problems,repair them a)quickly so no major loss of production etc b)so it doesn't occurr again c) find a good solution to the problem.

Good example.There's a boy that works with me,always puts the bootlace ferrules on,cable ties every x mm etc,proper crimping tools so the ends are on "just so".
I got called at 3.45pm to finish off wiring up a plug motor as he had to get home,it's 2 speed and forward reverse.
Get there to find it's been wired up,but it's going the wrong way,fair enough,so I swap two phases on the contactor.
Him"why are you doing that,it's wired as I took it off??",me "to change direction",him"I'm going home,this is beyond me".
I then found he'd put the slow to fast/fast to slow,this is easy to check beforehand through resistance checks.
I turn to explain this to him and he's running down the road with the apprentice,well done boys.
The managers now standing there asking me why it's not running,being a loyal guy,I try covering for him.the manager then informs me that he's been on this job since 11.30,4+ hrs to wire in a 6 wire motor which is 100% accessible and it doesn't even work!!!but it looks neat though!!!
1/2 way through this the shift spark comes in and I go back to my original job. Now this guys not well thought of round the place,he's seen as lazy,likes sitting down/talking etc.
Like me he's not local so that doesn't help either.
Within 10 minutes he has it running,productions back on and all's well.
The next shift,mr neat is receiving all the plaudits from our maintenance supervisor for the lovely neat job he did,until mr manager puts him straight.

A lot is said on here regarding domestic installers,"5 week wonders" etc,for gods sake someone even put up how backward we are compared to polish/portugese sparks!!!get a grip lads,the older ones amongst you know that what constitutes a "spark" now is not what it was even 15years ago,modular systems now mean that most domestic/installation work is pretty much child's play.
In my nigh on 20years I've seen maybe 2 domestic boys that can make the transition to a more control/faultfinding environment,and they're still way off what probably a 3rd year apprentice who's done a proper faultfinding course is.
So I ask again,what constitutes a "good spark"?
Or should the question be,what constitutes a "good worker"?
The two in my eyes are hugely different.mr neats no use to me at 3am when I can't get a machine to start,but when I find corroded terminals in a junction box,he could be the man to rewire it,provided I mark all the cables up for him first,I'm sure the job will look fantastic,but he could never find why it needed to be done in the first place.
There's a lad working with me now,apprentice 3rd year,bright boy but old before his time.
He spent a day once trying to correct what I was telling him as he'd been told the "correct" way to do things by "good sparks".
I sat him down after 5 hrs of this cr4p and asked him a simple question,do you want to spend the rest of your days connecting up sockets,making sure trunkings level,getting all your cables to bend at the same angles because your told to,or do you want to be the guy who does it because he knows WHY it needed doing in the first place.
Only time will tell.

 

[malcolmsanford]

To be honest IMO a good sparks is someone that as never burnt an house/factory/hotel/shop etc down and killed people.

I think that is the ultimate bottom line and covers domestic/industrial/commercial/maintenance etc etc. If you can walk away knowing that what you done whatever it is, is safe then I think you have made it.

 

[UNG]

Vaughaut, good post about sums things up in the industry

Part P has caused a big divide in our industry

Beyond the basics there are alot in the industry cannot understand the limitations of some test equipment or exploit the advanced facilities that alot of test equipment offers