Lack of skill

[rantoftheday]

Whats with the extremely poor standard of sparky work these days?

Sorry but I really feel as if the craftmanship of an electrician has been sadly lost

The company I work for has around 30 sparks of which 23 or so are completely useless, maybe 4 are decent and 2 or 3 spot on

It just seems that people dont give a damn as long as what they are installing works, bugger the regs, testing results are fabricated rarely see a bit of containment installed properly do people really not take their jobs seriously or uis it just me?

 

[Rockingit]

To be honest, I think we ALL need to cut each other some slack with this subject. The U.K., along with a HANDFUL of other countries is at the top of our game with Electrical Installations (of any flavour). Grab your passport and jump on a few sleazyjet.com flights to other places, THEN come back and talk about what makes a good and bad sparks.

I'm an 'all-rounder'; did my YTS in electrical when I was 16, went on to do some work in pure electronics and IT, then went and worked in the entertainments industry pulling 3ph around all over the place before taking up house bashing a couple of years ago. What makes me 'good' is the fact that I know what I don't, so I don't do it. I don't do factory control or automation because I know little about it, likewise the guys that do just that are probably a little on the backfoot when presented with a hammer and chisel.

It doesn't make one of us better, just differently skilled. Both of us probably follow the same method in fault finding, the process of doing things in a logical way and equally both of us have a desire to be proud of our work and ensure that it's neat and tidy as well as working.

Surely, that's what this forum is for: to SHARE our experiences, help each other out and show a united front in a desire to stay at the top of the game.

 

[UNG]

Surely, that's what this forum is for: to SHARE our experiences, help each other out and show a united front in a desire to stay at the top of the game.

How did we stay at the top of our game before the internet and forums as our trade evolved to what it is now?

How many will ever get to the top of the game?

It is all to easy to hide limited knowledge and experience at the touch of a few buttons these days. The availability of the internet everywhere these days allows people to post questions and some expect instant answers to what appears to be a basic problem

I for one consider the possible outcome of answering questions as some may take legal action although they have misinterpeted the answer in resolving the problem also am I allowing these people to undercut genuine well qualified and experienced tradesmen by answering there questions?

It is all food for thought

 

[Rockingit]

I agree with UNG that sometimes less is more, and I too am careful about what I do and don't answer on here.

Most practical skills are passed down through the ages by what the Anthropologists call an 'Oral Tradition', as in, one generation tells the next what to do. It is much the same here: The Chief tells the Apprentice, only now we have technology that means we can have lots of Chiefs telling lots of apprentices. So long as the Chiefs stay truy, and the Apprentice stays eager, then I really don't see a down side.

As for teaching the DIY-ers, well, that's a subject about regulation and control, not one of quality workmanship.

 

[vaughant]

Good thread this,some great replies.
Totally agree on the help issue,there's a few things I think I'll be pestering Tony about over the next few months as his knowledge is pretty immense in my field,in fact 90%+ of the guys/girls on here seem really clued up.
As for the hammer and bolster,spot on there,kango hammer is as far as I go,thank god I've got a good plasterer!!!

 

[brizospark]

Got to say that if you ain't keen and dedicated 100 per cent then don't take up sparkying in the first place. I reckon that this trade is the most diverse of any trade. Monday you could be bashing a house, Tuesday you could be wiring a control system panel, Wednesday you could be fault finding heavy machinery, Thursday you could find yourself installing a solar panel and Friday you could be sitting in the house because some 5 day wonder is rewiring a house for £7 an hour!

I am 25 and was lucky enough to serve an excellent and diverse apprenticeship being guided by some quality old time sparks who hammered home the importance of pride of work. When I work with guys of a similar age who don't give a s*** about their work or don't know how to do a periodic inspection half of me feels sorry for them and the other half doesn't because these days it is so easy to learn there are so many great books and guides available. I practically taught myself inspection and testing by getting my head in GN3 and some practical guide books. I then went on to pass the 2391.

I think a lot of the lack of skill does indeed come from today's world. Thirty years ago kids would be spending hours on a meccano set, these days the finger bashing of an Xbox is as far as it gets

Why don't schools spend time teaching kids practical skills from bricklaying to basic electrical work to one get kids interested and two get them used to practical skills? They should bin subject such as religious education what a waste of time.

Also though the lack of apprenticeships and moreso thack of quality apprenticeships is definitely another major factor

Good luck to any sparks starting out now, as I started out just under ten yeras ago I even notice a big difference now from then

 

[Knobhead]

As for the hammer and bolster,spot on there,kango hammer is as far as I go,thank god I've got a good plasterer!!!

How do you plaster a wall you’ve just demolished with a Kango?

That's my sort of trick :sailor:

 

[chronyx]

Three words:

Time is money.

Bosh it out, and get to the next job yesterday. By order of management.

 

[robsparky1975]

I dont think schools are allowed anymore to teach what most of us could do as kids the CDT class,hammers,drills etc,ruled by brussels,im british and dont want nothing to do with them,can we have OUR country back,rule brittania

 

[Knobhead]

can we have OUR country back,rule brittania

No! And I’m ashamed to admit I voted for joining the EU.

I’ll go and get the sackcloth and ashes now if that’s OK.
View attachment 8031

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No! And I’m ashamed to admit I voted for joining the EU.

I’ll got and get the sackcloth and ashes now if that’s OK.
View attachment 8031

Perhaps also a Leper's bell?

 

[ipf]

Nice one Tony. Now take it all apart and do it again. That'll teach 'em

 

[ipf]

I’d love to be there with you Howard, it’s great to see!

Then you just stand back with that “I told you it would work” look.

Then you bowl the body-line, tell me how it works!

Sorry, no quote. don't get the wrong impression

 

[La Poste]

A good spark in one that never stops reading and learning about the trade.

Someone who always makes the effort to find out the best solution.

With the internet we are all capable of this it's just some can't be bothered.

That's the difference between a good and bad spark IMO.

 

[ipf]

A good spark in one that never stops reading and learning about the trade.

Someone who always makes the effort to find out the best solution.

With the internet we are all capable of this it's just some can't be bothered.

That's the difference between a good and bad spark IMO.

Agree with learning and the effort. The internet can be very helpful but there is no substitute for experience, common sense and colleagues with plenty of.

 

[baldelectrician]

More on the 3 year apprentice

I left my 1st year apprentice (age 18) and the 3rd year guy (age 35) to tidy a job that I had done a new consumer unit in
They had to run a water bond and check some sockets (all dead working)
The 3 rd year guy put on a socket to a pattress and managed to break the back box - he hadn't stripped the twin and earth sheath back far enough.
The young one fixed it and I arrived back 10 mins later to find the 35 year old doin exactly the same thing again on another box.

I didn't know about the first one at this stage and pulled him up on his schoolboy error.
He looked really depressed and I get the feeling he isn't really interested in becoming a sparks

I asked him to do a wiring diagram of a job we were at last week. Gave him the spec (position of switches, cable routes - all bar the connections).
He had 3 attempts and got it wrong, after each attempt I explained what he had done wrong, he said he understood and obviously didn't

This annoyed me more- I don't mind if someone doesn't understand- but I mind if they try and bluff it