Landlords EICR and t&e sub mains without RCD

[vitoboy]

Hi All

Been doing a lot of EICR for landlords recently due to new legislation and agents i guess.
One common issue im finding even with relatively new (10 years) old installations is a T&E sub main.
Now some of these have a 100mA rcd .. or no RCD .. some are even wired in concentric cable.?..

My issue is that if they have no RCD we cant fit one because then we are putting the whole install on a single rcd which is no longer allowed and apart from that unwelcome by tenants when they need to go down stairs in the dark to find a RCD to reset every they plug in something rubbish.

So im left upgrading the submains to SWA ..as they should have been in the first place .. (they are typically buried in the wall and we cant prove they are more than 50mm deep) .
But in a few cases upgrading to SWA is a total nightmare if not impossible without destroying lots of the building to get them in.
Just wondering your thoughts on this and how you've been dealing with similar situations..or if you have any suggestions.
cheers
vitio

 

[Koipin]

100ma RCD on the Sub-main, Dual 30mA RCD on the Consumer unit in the Flat. No need for SWA I'd say.

 

[vitoboy]

could you indulge me on your thoughts for that .. i was under the impression that its a domestic premises and any unprotected cable less than 50mm deep or in a wall with metal parts needed RCD protection via 30mA RCD..?

 

[Andy78]

What code are you issuing for buried twin and earth cables ?

 

[vitoboy]

What code are you issuing for buried twin and earth cables ?

2 potentially dangerous..

 

[Andy78]

2 potentially dangerous..

And then the landlord gets you to do remedials which include adding RCD protection for every circuit ? Can't be a bad thing.
Myself I code that particular instance a C3 in line with industry guidance.

 

[westward10]

It is a bad thing now because how do you resolve it. I'm with Andy I can't see that as a C2 issue.

 

[vitoboy]

And then the landlord gets you to do remedials which include adding RCD protection for every circuit ? Can't be a bad thing.
Myself I code that particular instance a C3 in line with industry guidance.

Not being funny at all .. but can anyone explain to me how this is not potentially dangerous. .. adding in this particular case that's it's a tt system. .
But I would say it's potentially dangerous if it was tncs or tns

 

[westward10]

Now you mention TT so the biggest issue is fault protection if no rcd is in place.

 

[vitoboy]

Yep.. it's really a requirement here..
But some persons I know have suggested that I do a eicr starting at the consumer unit in the flat and ignore the sub main..? as is external..
But really I'm not happy with this.

 

[Andy78]

Not being funny at all .. but can anyone explain to me how this is not potentially dangerous. .. adding in this particular case that's it's a tt system. .
But I would say it's potentially dangerous if it was tncs or tns

Avoiding the need for fault protection via RCD for TT for now, a different issue, the hazard that exists with buried cables only occurs when destruction of the wall and electrical installation occurs. If that is a defining parameter then a socket may be worthy of a C2 in case you hit it with a sledgehammer.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - for TT I’d use a 100mA S type (time delayed) RCD up front for fault protection. The time delay is normally sufficient to allow the regular RCDs / RCBOs to trip for any final circuit faults.

 

[Nigel]

100ma RCD on the Sub-main, Dual 30mA RCD on the Consumer unit in the Flat. No need for SWA I'd say.

That won’t comply. Cables buried in walls need to have 30mA additional protection.

 

[Nigel]

2 potentially dangerous..

C3 would be more appropriate.

 

[Nigel]

Not being funny at all .. but can anyone explain to me how this is not potentially dangerous. .. adding in this particular case that's it's a tt system. .
But I would say it's potentially dangerous if it was tncs or tns

You are the one C2ing it. You tell us what the potential danger is of cables in a wall with no RCD additional protection.