Mikes Friday night Politics Thread

[Diddy]

Labour let immigration run out of control and only in the last year do they admit this, as a direct consequence we have to wait 1week plus for Dr appointments,

As opposed to the people actually dying waiting on cancer/heart ops prior to 1997. People have short memories.

-Before they lost power as a final damming act they signed of a load of powers to the EU that we have since been paying for dearly and even had the audacity to leave a piece of paper saying the pot is bare....

Which was an in house "joke" running since the 1950's "ish"....But this lot decided to make political capital out of it.

-Got over a million people off sick pay and benefits through self withdrawn claims

Thatcher government Idea to manipulate unemployment figures. Needed addressing which Labour did ATOS and the new WCA came in under Labour not that I agree nor support the mad way in which it has been handled. There are now thousands dead who have been found fit for work. The appeals system is in chaos and goodness knows the havoc this has caused...But well done them for getting a million off the sick....At a cost of more than it would have been to just leave them there.

Bedroom tax ,,yeah the hated tax but why should a family with spare room be funded by the work force to have larger home than required

House is supposed to be a home in my book. And as you already stated there are no smaller houses to move people into - BUT I still say moving people because they are too poor to afford to buy a house is wrong and immoral. How do you hope to create a "Big Society" if people have to move every 10 years or less.....Back in the 70's and before a house was a home and community spirit was not something from a history book.

I did not even like the last labour government as IMHO they are just a Tory lite and continued with the policies thatcher implemented way back in 1980. Yep market deregulation worked really well. I laugh in the face of tory supporters who go on about the banking crisis being labours "fault" but yet have changed NOTHING with regards the so called "soft touch" regulation of the city.
Anyway it's all the immigrants fault innit ?

 

[UNG]

The UK needs "conviction" politicians, those rare beasts who don't change their mind like the wind or spend all their time listening to "focus groups"

What it needs are MP's who aren't bothered about criticism and swayed by the PC brigade. There are to many in this country who feel wronged and will be critical of people who don't share their point of view on climate change and other things

 

[dingledong]

Boris is a buffoon

 

[dingledong]

Bring back Maggie
Well if she was alive that is

 

[Darkwood]

As opposed to the people actually dying waiting on cancer/heart ops prior to 1997. People have short memories.

Totally separate issue for different reasons, I was reflecting a direct link to uncontrolled immigration and the damage done to the NHS, Schooling and Housing.... as Labour has already held their hands up to this mainly because they were backed into a corner to do so it kinda makes it a clear cut point.




Which was an in house "joke" running since the 1950's "ish"....But this lot decided to make political capital out of it.


Thatcher government Idea to manipulate unemployment figures. Needed addressing which Labour did ATOS and the new WCA came in under Labour not that I agree nor support the mad way in which it has been handled. There are now thousands dead who have been found fit for work. The appeals system is in chaos and goodness knows the havoc this has caused...But well done them for getting a million off the sick....At a cost of more than it would have been to just leave them there.

My point was to express the benefits system was creating an ever increasing 'way of life' attitude that previous government after government had not addressed but under the Labour last few terms it starting running out of control it made us a world target for unskilled mass influx a tag that's hard to get rid of.... The coalitions clamp down on the system is by no means perfect and requires an overall but in bringing it in over 1+million voluntarily gave up their benefits basically because they were scamming the system and knew they were fit to work... that's a damning reality check IMHO


House is supposed to be a home in my book. And as you already stated there are no smaller houses to move people into - BUT I still say moving people because they are too poor to afford to buy a house is wrong and immoral. How do you hope to create a "Big Society" if people have to move every 10 years or less.....Back in the 70's and before a house was a home and community spirit was not something from a history book.

I did not even like the last labour government as IMHO they are just a Tory lite and continued with the policies thatcher implemented way back in 1980. Yep market deregulation worked really well. I laugh in the face of tory supporters who go on about the banking crisis being labours "fault" but yet have changed NOTHING with regards the so called "soft touch" regulation of the city.
Anyway it's all the immigrants fault innit ?

In this world I'm in the believe you reap what you sow, yes its a nice thought to say your house is your home but when its funded by the working populous it is not a right, if you are receiving free housing are financial help because say you are genuinely in ill health or some genuine other legitimate reason then I'm happy to fund such a person/family with my taxes ... but when families sit in their houses at tax payers expense and are found to have a bedroom count larger than requirement then regardless of yrs etc spent there they should be downsized to allow for a family struggling in overcrowded situation.... Ill reiterate it need a bit of an overall to make it fairer to those with disabilities within the family for those who genuinely need the room for other uses but sitting there saying this isn't fair when all their lives they have been handed tax payers money to put that roof over their heads is a slap in the face to every tax payer.
Agree lack of housing is a issue and the bedroom tax should be implemented only after the area has suitable housing for them to move into if that's their choice but as an idea its workable just need some changes to how its implemented and who is exempt .... When your living arrangement are funded or supplemented by the working force you should not get into the idea you have a right to stay put... you do as a matter of fact but only if you pay for the spare bedrooms. Not everyone is in the fortunate position to have a well payed job and may need a genuine helping hand and all im saying is in accepting that help you have to realise your home isn't a life long deal, as your circumstances change and your needs change then other families have a greater need for your house, its so ignorant in my mind to accept tax payers money all your life that when your home is needed for another family who are in the same circumstances you were many yrs ago to turn around and say its unfair is just jaw dropping.... I reiterate though its a shambles at the moment because of lack of suitable housing to downgrade to ... hence my mixed opinion on this.

I'm not supporting the coalition legacy here don't get me wrong but just putting out their that they have had to make some very unwelcome choices to keep the economy afloat .... and not all bad IMHO. I live in a small town and still know loads milking the benefits system now if this a reflection of the big picture and evidence suggests it is then attitudes need to chance - In this country benefits were not introduced for the reasons many now abuse them for.. attitudes have to change - benefits should not be a way of life but a helping hand unless you circumstances means you have a life long need to be on them.

Benefits are not to supplement :-

Sky TV
Mobile phones, laptops, large screen TV's etc
Smoking and drinking
Holiday after holiday that the average working family would struggle to afford.... the list goes on, if you find yourself in need of benefits then they should be used in respect to why you are in a position to need them. Im sick of seeing young single mums with a £3.99 pram pushing their child around while speaking on a top of the range phone, father done a bunk don't work or pay for his kid....their is too much of this and kids need a reality check before been in this position but guess what they get this attitude to life direct from their parents...so frikin wrong.

 

[trev]

Anyone who believes the claim that 1 million people have signed off the various sickness benefits needs to have a good long talk to themselves.
If this were the case then the 2.5 million people claiming dole would have swollen to 3.5 million unless these people were sick one day then miraculously found themselves work the following one. Anyone with half a brain can realise that the coalition is lying though it's teeth at us, Borrowing stands at incredibly high amounts which they said they'd get under control in one parliament.
A LIE
They said they'd eliminate the deficit within one parliament
A LIE
They said they'd be fair to those at the lower end of society
A LIE
Transparent and open government
A LIE
Fair taxation policies
A LIE
Etc
Etc
Etc

 

[dingledong]

But if I lived in my parents 3 bedroom house which they paid for and they have both died why should I give up my family home to downsize
Why not give vouchers instead of money something like a food credit card etc
That would stop a lot of fiddling

 

[trev]

But if I lived in my parents 3 bedroom house which they paid for and they have both died why should I give up my family home to downsize
Why not give vouchers instead of money something like a food credit card etc
That would stop a lot of fiddling

That's firstly a pipe dream, there will always be unscrupulous people who will be prepared to buy any of those things for lower than face value so the actual recipients can buy things they "shouldn't". Secondly why should someone be stigmatised for being out of work? You could have a person who has worked all their lives and recently been made redundant tarred with the same brush as someone who will neither work nor want.
Your bit about the bedroom tax is irrelevant, if you own (via your parents mortage and subsequent death) then you will not be subject to it as you're not claiming housing benefit. Yet another example of the tories penalising people for the heinous crime of being poor.

 

[Darkwood]

But if I lived in my parents 3 bedroom house which they paid for and they have both died why should I give up my family home to downsize
Why not give vouchers instead of money something like a food credit card etc
That would stop a lot of fiddling

If the house is tax payer funded then its not your parents this is the mind set that has to step ... its rented to you in a sense it has to be made available to others in more need, I agree a bit of sensitivity needs to be implemented say 2yrs following bereavement etc as it stands at the moment its a bit tactless as a system.. but you have to realise its not your parents house its the tax payers house and someone else needs it more than you ... In the hypothetical situation you bring up...

If your parents house is privately owned and you were given it your would have to pay for the extra bedrooms through your council tax and has always been the case so explain why it should be different to someone receiving housing benefits and having spare rooms?

 

[D Skelton]

Well I can't be bothered to get into a political debate as to who is best out of the Tories and Labour. I'm betting most know where I stand on the Tories due to my sig, and Labour, well, they were newtered a long time ago, so not much faith there either. All I will say is that we live in a country with the illusion of democracy. We vote every five years for a party that is no more than the best of a bad bunch and they still do the exact opposite of what they set out in their manifestos and we as the proletariate have no power whatsoever to change that. At least under a dictatorship you know what you're getting. I'd also like to raise the issue of happiness. Ultimately, this is all we live for right?! What amuses me is the fact that countries like ours, with its shining beacon of hope that somehow attracts the rest of the world to our golden paved streets, is one of the unhappiest countries in the world. Contrary to what you might think, it's places like Cuba, Iran, China, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Russia and Venesuela that rank high on the happiness scale! Just goes to show that capitalism isn't the be all and end all doesn't it!

National Socialism is where it's at IMHO. Just a shame that lunatic Adolf had to go and give it a bad name with all his Jew hating!

And for those of you who still don't get it; true National Socialism = the polar opposite to International Finance Capitalism. It is not Nazism, so don't even go there.

 

[Darkwood]

I tend to follow European politics as its these that govern our laws not the puppets in office, regardless of your political views about him and the inhouse press attack on Nigel Farage when you see him in action in the European courts telling it as it is and giving the higheracky a dressing down on his own you got to admit he's got balls.... surprised he hasn't had a hit on him as he's one of Europes biggest headaches at the moment and is becoming more influencial by the day... he don't mince his words when attacking them.

 

[Diddy]

I also have another thing to add about council/social housing being owned by the state and subsidised by the taxpayer.....How is it any different from the taxpayer subsidising private landlords who often have a load of ex council housing stock that they happily rent back to us at a rate that covers their mortgage and gives them a small profit on top ? We are effectively buying a property for people who have enough cash to fund a BTL mortgage.
Also while on the soap box - Is it also not true that currently the taxpayer subsidises almost every single person in the country who has a mortgage ? Do you think the interest rates would be sitting where they are without billions of tax payer cash being ploughed into the system ? Add to that the fact that the BOE has been printing money since 2008 ish.....Making every pound you earn/save worth less and less as time goes on.
But yeah lets get people out of their houses because they have the temerity to not be earning enough to buy.

 

[trev]

It's not even getting them out of their houses though Diddy, there are not enough one and two bedroom properties about for everyone who is under occupying to move into so as I said earlier, it's punishing people for being poor which in my opinion is lower than a snakes belly.

 

[Darkwood]

Its a poor system where those who did well at school, got a career, a mortgage and a house can be worse off as oppose to those who shunned education, can work but won't work and has the state give them a better house and surplus cash, Im not talking about those from rich families going to private school nor those who go out to work and just get topped up to help them along ..Im talking about the workless baby machines that abuse the system at the cost to every tax payer out there... the whole set up has got out of control and only now is the purse strings been pulled on these people... when you see FB talk about having their job seekers allowance cut and how they might have to give Sky TV up is so annoying yet they drag their kids up curse and swear around promoting the next gen' of lay about lazy gits.

This is about the lay about scroungers not those who genuinely need help.... the old trick of having a kid every 2 yrs can still give some a work free life of handouts because they never cross the barrier to have to go back to work or start work for the first time...

We need to re-educate that benefits are not a way of life but a helping hand and close all the loopholes that allow abuse of the system.

 

[D Skelton]

Its a poor system where those who did well at school, got a career, a mortgage and a house can be worse off as oppose to those who shunned education, can work but won't work and has the state give them a better house and surplus cash, Im not talking about those from rich families going to private school nor those who go out to work and just get topped up to help them along ..Im talking about the workless baby machines that abuse the system at the cost to every tax payer out there... the whole set up has got out of control and only now is the purse strings been pulled on these people... when you see FB talk about having their job seekers allowance cut and how they might have to give Sky TV up is so annoying yet they drag their kids up curse and swear around promoting the next gen' of lay about lazy gits.

This is about the lay about scroungers not those who genuinely need help.... the old trick of having a kid every 2 yrs can still give some a work free life of handouts because they never cross the barrier to have to go back to work or start work for the first time...

We need to re-educate that benefits are not a way of life but a helping hand and close all the loopholes that allow abuse of the system.

No we don't buddy. You're looking at it from the wrong way round. We need to change the system so that it actually pays to work. I don't blame the benefits scroungers one jot. Why bother slogging yer guts out stacking shelves all week for less money than you'd get on the rock and roll?!

We need to force companies to pay a living wage, and if they don't like it then close them down! We also need to cap rent on a national scale so that those people working can actually afford to pay the rent through work and have a bit more left over to play with. Rent caps would drive house prices down as a result of the millions of rich landlords selling up, thus making buying a home more affordable. As long as the transition is controlled and the government prevented negative equity by funding guarantees for the banks when the prices fall, we wouldn't suffer one problem. How would we fund this might you ask?? Well after such a transition, housing benefit would as near as makes no difference be a thing of the past. Billions saved right there and at the same time that gulf between the rich and the poor would be made quite a lot smaller almost overnight!

You don't get the poor working by punishing them for not being in work, you get them working by giving them the incentive!

You don't get the rich to pay a living wage by offering them an incentive, you get them to pay a living wage by punishing them if they don't!

It isn't a hard concept really, I'm just amazed at how so many people struggle with the idea! Redistribution of wealth is the only thing that will save this economy.