NEW circuits into non amm3 DB. ?????

[Dozer 73]

If I was to wire an extension on a house , and the DB does not meet amendment 3 , where do I stand adding new circuits into this DB , is it ok or should it be changed to Amm 3 DB
Know I should know the answer to this but hey ho were not all perfect

 

[Ian1981]

Only your work you’ve installed needs to comply with bs 7671 so if installing a new circuit ( could be a shower) why would you be required to say check tightness of the upstairs lighting circuit as an example?
You are responsible for your work only by all means check the tightness of the tails but I fail to see why you should be required to check everything?
It’s not an eicr after all.

 

[Pete999]

I like your your quote , and think it’s good practise , but where do you draw the line on that quote
Do you check every existing connection every time you add a circuit into a DB

Yes I would out of professional pride, not saying it's required but I would do it anyway, 20 minutes at the most.

 

[Octopus]

Consumer units - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/55/consumer-units/index.cfm
DAFT IDEA ??????????

What the IET did was ignore the obvious ......... you never see older wooden and / or metal units up in flames - always the newer FLIMSY carp ............ so to divert attention away from the poor quality products BEAMA conspired with the IET to mandate wrapping their carp products in a bit of metal ............ the bits inside are still pretty rubbish

 

[Midwest]

Talking of the IET, here's their guidance on your question OP;

Consumer units: a brief overview - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/59/consumer-units/index.cfm

 

[Pete999]

I find it tricky to believe that ANYONE whoclaims to work in the industry
Thinks this is a daft idea
Just couldn’t resist it

Think the IET are by passing the real reason CUs are going up in, imo the reason is /was poor installation practices, read what you will into my opinion, I have said this before on many occasions.

 

[Pete999]

Think the IET are by passing the real reason CUs are going up in, imo the reason is /was poor installation practices, read what you will into my opinion, I have said this before on many occasions.

Sorry left out the word "smoke"

 

[Spoon]

Read the threads, personally I think it would be good to add this into regs , regarding extensions and spread of fire , specially when it’s been deemed so important that a big amendment has been introduced about it
So all the latest regs apply with an extension , but to hell with amendment 3 and the spread of fire
As long as the electrician connecting the circuits up can quote the regs off by heart there will be no chance of a fire at the DB

We both work in industrial mate so we are used to ordering metal CU's... (I love you Sprecher Schuh.. )
The problem with domestic CU's is that the quality has gone down in the past years... cost cutting.
Also there are loads more electricians out there, some of whom do not have the competence to do the job properly.
I agree with @Pete999 post #35.

 

[7029 dave]

What the IET did was ignore the obvious ......... you never see older wooden and / or metal units up in flames - always the newer FLIMSY carp ............ so to divert attention away from the poor quality products BEAMA conspired with the IET to mandate wrapping their carp products in a bit of metal ............ the bits inside are still pretty rubbish

Yes, the old stuff was built to last, I can't stop saying, the new moduler CU boards are rubbish, only 1 terminal on all connections, bring back solid 2 screw connections on it all, surely they can make such a CU, won't be as flexible as they are at the moment with populating but some compromise is needed.

 

[Dozer 73]

Another interesting read on the matter , think I’ve exhausted this matter now !!!! It just states the obvious really
There are over twenty million domestic dwellings in the UK and each has an electrical installation, usually with electricity meter and consumer unit arrangement supplying the lighting and power in the dwelling. There are numerous fires in domestic dwellings every year, many due to electrical faults, so Amendment No. 3 to BS 7671, published in 2015, introduced Regulation 421.1.201 to increase the safety of consumer units and similar switchgear. Regulation 421.1.201 comes into force in January 2016. Leon Markwell, Senior Engineer at the IET, writes an overview on what this regulation requires.

Generally, meters and consumer units are not attractive and are consequently hidden from view or placed in out-of-the way locations, such as under the stairs in houses, in garages or outbuildings, or are boxed in and covered. BS 7671 already advises that all electrical installations should be regularly inspected and tested – which sadly does not happen in many domestic dwellings. This lack of inspection and maintenance, coupled with changing electrical loads and load patterns, aging consumer units and a possible lack of adequate ventilation can all lead to overheating of the consumer unit, which could possibly start a fire.

Regulation 421.1.201 has been introduced to require that consumer units and similar switchgear, whether in new installations or where consumer units etc. are being replaced, shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 Low-voltage switchgear and controlgear assemblies. Distribution boards intended to be operated by ordinary persons (DBO) and have their enclosures made of non-combustible material, or be enclosed in an accessible cabinet or enclosure itself made of non-combustible material. At this time there is no specific British Standard definition of what ‘non-combustible’ means, so the only readily non-combustible material that can be currently identified and used to manufacture consumer units and switchgear is steel. Although steel is currently viewed as the only suitable material, manufacturers may identify and propose other materials if these can be shown to be non-combustible.

It is not a requirement that all non-compliant ‘combustible’ consumer units and switchgear must be replaced – instead, an inspection of a domestic dwelling’s electrical installation should be undertaken by a competent person in accordance with the requirements of Chapter 62 of BS 7671 and a decision made as to whether the consumer unit and any associated switchgear are still safe and suitable for their function. Such a decision might be informed by the age, condition and installation circumstances of the domestic dwelling’s electrical installation.

Generally, consumer units etc. under wooden staircases in houses or boxed in in wooden cupboard arrangements may be seen to have a potential risk of fire due to a probable lack of ventilation and the adjacent combustible materials. However, electrical equipment in these areas could have their ventilation improved and a local self-contained smoke detector installed.

 

[uksrevivor]

Not a great deal of information from the OP on what type of board it is, is it a plastic split load dual rcd or an older wylex rewirable fuse BS 3036 type? a bit more info might get more help.

 

[Dozer 73]

Not a great deal of information from the OP on what type of board it is, is it a plastic split load dual rcd or an older wylex rewirable fuse BS 3036 type? a bit more info might get more help.

The thread was actually raised by a conservation I had at work yesterday , this isn’t my job (the extension) don’t really do house bashin , one of our electricians asked me the question and I said sure you can connect new circuits into existing dB , and he had convinced himself you had to install amm 3 dB because it’s an extension and all up to date building regs apply
So I havnt seen the DB in question but do know it’s not amm 3
So being a forum thought I’d ask the question rather
, but as the installer it’s your final decision and design regarding the additional circuits and increased load
So I agree with what you are trying to say , every situation is different

 

[Pete999]

Read the threads, personally I think it would be good to add this into regs , regarding extensions and spread of fire , specially when it’s been deemed so important that a big amendment has been introduced about it
So all the latest regs apply with an extension , but to hell with amendment 3 and the spread of fire
As long as the electrician connecting the circuits up can quote the regs off by heart there will be no chance of a fire at the DB

Another interesting read on the matter , think I’ve exhausted this matter now !!!! It just states the obvious really
There are over twenty million domestic dwellings in the UK and each has an electrical installation, usually with electricity meter and consumer unit arrangement supplying the lighting and power in the dwelling. There are numerous fires in domestic dwellings every year, many due to electrical faults, so Amendment No. 3 to BS 7671, published in 2015, introduced Regulation 421.1.201 to increase the safety of consumer units and similar switchgear. Regulation 421.1.201 comes into force in January 2016. Leon Markwell, Senior Engineer at the IET, writes an overview on what this regulation requires.

Generally, meters and consumer units are not attractive and are consequently hidden from view or placed in out-of-the way locations, such as under the stairs in houses, in garages or outbuildings, or are boxed in and covered. BS 7671 already advises that all electrical installations should be regularly inspected and tested – which sadly does not happen in many domestic dwellings. This lack of inspection and maintenance, coupled with changing electrical loads and load patterns, aging consumer units and a possible lack of adequate ventilation can all lead to overheating of the consumer unit, which could possibly start a fire.

Regulation 421.1.201 has been introduced to require that consumer units and similar switchgear, whether in new installations or where consumer units etc. are being replaced, shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 Low-voltage switchgear and controlgear assemblies. Distribution boards intended to be operated by ordinary persons (DBO) and have their enclosures made of non-combustible material, or be enclosed in an accessible cabinet or enclosure itself made of non-combustible material. At this time there is no specific British Standard definition of what ‘non-combustible’ means, so the only readily non-combustible material that can be currently identified and used to manufacture consumer units and switchgear is steel. Although steel is currently viewed as the only suitable material, manufacturers may identify and propose other materials if these can be shown to be non-combustible.

It is not a requirement that all non-compliant ‘combustible’ consumer units and switchgear must be replaced – instead, an inspection of a domestic dwelling’s electrical installation should be undertaken by a competent person in accordance with the requirements of Chapter 62 of BS 7671 and a decision made as to whether the consumer unit and any associated switchgear are still safe and suitable for their function. Such a decision might be informed by the age, condition and installation circumstances of the domestic dwelling’s electrical installation.

Generally, consumer units etc. under wooden staircases in houses or boxed in in wooden cupboard arrangements may be seen to have a potential risk of fire due to a probable lack of ventilation and the adjacent combustible materials. However, electrical equipment in these areas could have their ventilation improved and a local self-contained smoke detector installed.

If they made them better, trained the installers better, stopped cowboys doing electrical work, policed the CP Schemes better, then we wouldn't have so many CU fires. Well that's what I think for what it's worth.

 

[Pete999]

If they made them better, trained the installers better, stopped cowboys doing electrical work, policed the CP Schemes better, then we wouldn't have so many CU fires. Well that's what I think for what it's worth.

In addition, people should stop worrying about how the CU looks, stop cable tying conductors, and pay more attention to making a safe CU install, by all means make it a tidy install, stop making how nice it looks the be all, remember you put a cover on after you have connected it up, so all the poncing about with bending conductors is hidden, make it safe, tidy and secure we would be far better off.

 

[Octopus]

If they made them better,

That would improve the situation a great deal .................... come on BEAMA - do something.

 

[uksrevivor]

Personally i take pride in knowing i have left the work i carried out safe and i always try to leave nicely curled conductors on a board install as it makes identification of conductors easier it looks neat and tidy and makes me proud of my work. I always hope another spark who works on it in the future says to himself thats a nice neat job and i hope the extra slack on the conductors makes someone else's life a bit easier when they come to test or work on it but that is the way i was taught to do it. I hate coming across spaghetti junction inside boards as it can cause problems when untangling a certain circuit by disturbing others and makes identification of conductors a pain in the a***