New rewire and fuse board - views on work.

[Debrahim]

Hi,

I’d appreciate views on the fuse board.

B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted at ImgBB

Image B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

It’s been completely rewired and I’m unhappy with the quality.

I’ve messaged him about it and described the board as a complete mess, and poor workmanship ship. For entry for the 25mm cables and 16mm tails he used the knock out but didn’t bother using the plastic cable holder - which is a couple of quid.

Also with the cables coming in through the back, there is no plastic or anything so the metal of the board could rub against the metal of the board.

his reply is below

a. - there is a reason why cables shouldn't be perfectly arrange in the fuse box because it could create electromagnetic field resulting in humming sound in the fuse box- you would probably think that's ridiculous ! But it's a fact!


Quite frankly I’m shocked, would you be happy with the work, paying over 4k? And supplying the board all second fix items etc? So basically 5k?

He has also created 5 additional lighting circuits downstairs, I live in a three bed terraced house.

1) for 6 down lights in a 2.5m x 2m room.
2) just the ground hallway light.
3) the lounge dinner, two lights and two wall lights.
4) a porch light and floodlight.
5) under stairs light simply 2 lights.

His reply is that it is is better… but then it’s all on a dual rcd so it doesn’t really help in my opinion.

We agreed the whole of downstairs on a circuit except the hallway on a separate one. (He said that was best practice.

I’ve attached photos and the pieces that I believe should go there. One is too big.

 

[Diddy]

The issues to which you can legitimately raise objections have already been covered: Power and lighting should be split across both RCDs, so loosing one bank of circuits will ensure either power or light remains in any given area of the home. Cables (including incoming tails) should be suitably supported and restrained - there are many ways in which this can be done, including the simple cable clip. If there is sufficient space for finger access where tails come in the bottom, then this should be filled. Cables should be protected from metal edges as they come into the board, which can be remedied through the use of grommet strip.

The above are the ONLY issues that you could pull the original electrician on. As well as the bit of the circuit that has not been rewired. Be advised that you must give the original electrician the opportunity to fix those issues before going down the withholding payment or part payment route.
These are also the only things that you need rectified to make the installation totally compliant and safe for continued use. So as far as safety is concerned get the above fixed and you are fine to leave everything as it is.

You do not need a new board - It would just have been "better" if you had at least been given the option of an RCBO setup, But that ship has sailed as it were. There is zero recourse on the people who quoted for you when you simply asked for a fuse board upgrade or indeed if it was part of other works for not offering the RCBO option....It's just that most of us on here find it strange due to the fact that the cost difference these days is minimal and it is "best practice" but not really laid out in black and white in the regulations.

I

 

[Dave OCD]

Hi, just curious, are your Meter tails burried in the wall?

They go straight through into the external meter box.

 

[Dave OCD]

This maybe me being a bit picky but

How long are those tails ? the ones going through those big holes near the twisted rcbos

Less than a metre, they go straight through to DP isolator in the external meter box. Considering the testing was completed at 3pm and the board install was complete including the labelling by 4.45pm I'd say it's not bad at all. Let's see a pic of one of your boards now ?

 

[mainline]

Less than a metre, they go straight through to DP isolator in the external meter box. Considering the testing was completed at 3pm and the board install was complete including the labelling by 4.45pm I'd say it's not bad at all. Let's see a pic of one of your boards now ?

I did mean to go back and finish this one, but the fella wouldn't let me back in.

 

[Debrahim]

Also unlikely to gain any benefit from the additional expense of changing to RCBOs and sourcing new busbar. I'd be inclined to leave the current set up in place, unless cumulative earth leakage happens to cause nuisance tripping (of which there have been no reports so far).

I have been advised that a dual RCD board is bad, and that I should have RCBO's - you guys are the experts, if its a matter of safety, i'm happy to swap.

There has been no tripping. I allowed extra space for the solar/car charger, but thought,

The above are the ONLY issues that you could pull the original electrician on. As well as the bit of the circuit that has not been rewired. Be advised that you must give the original electrician the opportunity to fix those issues before going down the withholding payment or part payment route.
These are also the only things that you need rectified to make the installation totally compliant and safe for continued use. So as far as safety is concerned get the above fixed and you are fine to leave everything as it is.

You do not need a new board - It would just have been "better" if you had at least been given the option of an RCBO setup, But that ship has sailed as it were. There is zero recourse on the people who quoted for you when you simply asked for a fuse board upgrade or indeed if it was part of other works for not offering the RCBO option....It's just that most of us on here find it strange due to the fact that the cost difference these days is minimal and it is "best practice" but not really laid out in black and white in the regulations.

I

Thank you, however the law says that the work must be carried out with skill and care. The test is whether a ‘reasonably competent member of the profession’ would leave it like that.

Everyone here said it’s sloppy and poor. If you boards look like this then I’d be interested to see ?

He didn’t use a torc screwdriver nor did he do any testing. I know as I was there.

The tails inside are just free floating and hanging - no clip to hold them in place, is that legal?

The cables come through the back via the metal, there is no grommet or plastic to protect the cables against the sharp metal edge again is that legal ?

The socket has a massive hole there, my finger could easily fit in there, is that legal ?

The

 

[Debrahim]

The above are the ONLY issues that you could pull the original electrician on. As well as the bit of the circuit that has not been rewired. Be advised that you must give the original electrician the opportunity to fix those issues before going down the withholding payment or part payment route.
These are also the only things that you need rectified to make the installation totally compliant and safe for continued use. So as far as safety is concerned get the above fixed and you are fine to leave everything as it is.

You do not need a new board - It would just have been "better" if you had at least been given the option of an RCBO setup, But that ship has sailed as it were. There is zero recourse on the people who quoted for you when you simply asked for a fuse board upgrade or indeed if it was part of other works for not offering the RCBO option....It's just that most of us on here find it strange due to the fact that the cost difference these days is minimal and it is "best practice" but not really laid out in black and white in the regulations.

I

I’ve given him the option to fix, he has refused. You will see his excuse in the first page. Apparently a nicely wired consumer board causes a hum and an electronic field. Lol. Now I’ve refused to pay it looks like he will come and do it, and we will go from there.

I wonder why no one quoted for a RCBO, including him. Here everyone says they quote for full rcbo.

Safety comes, so from people saying it should be a RCBO now I will change it, people are saying it’s unnecessary,

Out of interest is a car charger and solar more likely to trigger the RCD ? For £100 + labour I can put them in the board on RCBO’s.

Other than wiskas product is there a way to extend the cables in a fuse board ?

Cheers.

 

[Diddy]

Safety comes, so from people saying it should be a RCBO now I will change it, people are saying it’s unnecessary,

Well cheers for ignoring my and others very clear advice. that advice extends to untidy fuse boards too. there is NO obligation nor regulation which states that work should be neat and tidy. The advice was RCBO's are a "nice to have" as opposed to a must have so again you will be paying twice as you have zero recourse to the installation of the board as it currently stands aside from the gaps where the tails come in.
I don't mean to sound confrontational but I/we have essentially told you where you stand legally and we have also told you that although not "ideal" the use of a dual RCD board with mcb's is NOT against ANY regulations.

I do wish you well in your endeavours. I will leave it to others to answer any further questions as im not a fan of writing out a load of words for them to be ignored. Personally I and a few others are just trying to save you cash while ensuring the installation is at least safe.

 

[buzzlightyear]

If he has refused then your option is to get a independent spark in to write you a report of his findings. Has we give out advice not hear say, if he takes you to court no doubt he will then you will have evidence against him.send him all copy's of the findings ask the indpendant spark to quote regulation numbers and bobs your uncle antie.
Which court I'm in to day old Bailey.

 

[baldelectrician]

I am in the process of quoting a new consumer unit where the client will need a larger consumer unit

She is going for a dual RCD with additional RCBO's for, I will be installing a Hager VML91620CUSPD
She is also getting PV and probably battery storage - this is the reason for the larger unit

Hager also do a change over switch to allow the use of a seperate generator / inverter

This has dual RCD's, and is configurable as well. I still install dual RCD units as I prefer Hager but add 2-3 RCBO's as well

I would suggest you put the lower lights, lower sockets and kitchen sockets on RCBO's

If you had the larger consumer unit (VML90610CUSPD / VML91014CUSPD / VML91620CUSPD) you could remove the lower consumer unit and have all stuff on the same consumer unit

 

[Debrahim]

Well cheers for ignoring my and others very clear advice. that advice extends to untidy fuse boards too. there is NO obligation nor regulation which states that work should be neat and tidy. The advice was RCBO's are a "nice to have" as opposed to a must have so again you will be paying twice as you have zero recourse to the installation of the board as it currently stands aside from the gaps where the tails come in.
I don't mean to sound confrontational but I/we have essentially told you where you stand legally and we have also told you that although not "ideal" the use of a dual RCD board with mcb's is NOT against ANY regulations.

I do wish you well in your endeavours. I will leave it to others to answer any further questions as im not a fan of writing out a load of words for them to be ignored. Personally I and a few others are just trying to save you cash while ensuring the installation is at least safe.

Thanks Diddy but as you will see others have a different view - to the extent some don’t fit them.

Out of interest is this how you leave them ? Would you put your name to it ?

 

[Debrahim]

I am in the process of quoting a new consumer unit where the client will need a larger consumer unit

She is going for a dual RCD with additional RCBO's for, I will be installing a Hager VML91620CUSPD
She is also getting PV and probably battery storage - this is the reason for the larger unit

Hager also do a change over switch to allow the use of a seperate generator / inverter

This has dual RCD's, and is configurable as well. I still install dual RCD units as I prefer Hager but add 2-3 RCBO's as well

I would suggest you put the lower lights, lower sockets and kitchen sockets on RCBO's

If you had the larger consumer unit (VML90610CUSPD / VML91014CUSPD / VML91620CUSPD) you could remove the lower consumer unit and have all stuff on the same consumer unit

Thanks for the suggestion - I’m going to get sockets and lights on RCBO’s.

The benefit of the board below is that the kitchen extension is all separate,

I posted the code of the consumer unit, but it’s 14 way dual RCD with SPD. The plastic one below is a 6 way dual RCD. (2 spares).

 

[DPG]

Thanks for the suggestion - I’m going to get sockets and lights on RCBO’s.

The benefit of the board below is that the kitchen extension is all separate,

I posted the code of the consumer unit, but it’s 14 way dual RCD with SPD. The plastic one below is a 6 way dual RCD. (2 spares).

Don't put sockets and lights on the same RCBO. Or was that a typo?

 

[baldelectrician]

Thanks for the suggestion - I’m going to get sockets and lights on RCBO’s.

The benefit of the board below is that the kitchen extension is all separate,

I posted the code of the consumer unit, but it’s 14 way dual RCD with SPD. The plastic one below is a 6 way dual RCD. (2 spares).

The regulations prefer (and usually require) a single point of isolation. You currently have 2 consumer units with seperate isolators

The new consumer unit you have will be too small if you are adding PV etc, the max Hager do in a single row is 14 way with SPD (RCBO's), remove 4 ways if a dual RCD unit.

Your electrician could take away one RCD and install 5-6 RCBO's then you will have more space

I do use Hager as the quality is good

 

[Debrahim]

If he has refused then your option is to get a independent spark in to write you a report of his findings. Has we give out advice not hear say, if he takes you to court no doubt he will then you will have evidence against him.send him all copy's of the findings ask the indpendant spark to quote regulation numbers and bobs your uncle antie.
Which court I'm in to day old Bailey.

I’m happy to do this, but I’m worried a random spark will not want to get dragged into this, and I will need to find an ‘expert’ witness.

I’m sure a spark will be willing to give me a statement that a nicely arranged fuseboard does not cause an electro magnetic field and cause a hummmm. Whilst it might not breach a code (isn’t their one about the quality of workmanship) I don’t feel it has been completed with skill - nor do I think an electrician I’m paying this amount of money would produce this rubbish.

What about the NIC.

 

[DPG]

I’m happy to do this, but I’m worried a random spark will not want to get dragged into this, and I will need to find an ‘expert’ witness.

I’m sure a spark will be willing to give me a statement that a nicely arranged fuseboard does not cause an electro magnetic field and cause a hummmm. Whilst it might not breach a code (isn’t their one about the quality of workmanship) I don’t feel it has been completed with skill - nor do I think an electrician I’m paying this amount of money would produce this rubbish.

What about the NIC.

Didn't you say there was no testing carried out? And no certificate? That is a fail straight away.