New Village hall build Kitchen Ring

[nickblake]

Take your ReG with you and ask him to show you the Reg then show him the Regs horizontal or vertical . in kitchens the less vertical drops the better due to wall cabinets

 

[telectrix]

correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought part p related only to domestic installs. a village hall is not domestic

 

[ian.settle1]

the site foreman is correct

This is where you said it had to be vertical in a previous post

 

[UNG]

As always good workmanship is the crux, and for that point, cables should be installed vertical whenever practical, because trades that follow know not to nail, drill directly vertical below or over any electrical point. It may be old school, but I also insist on the same on any of my jobs. ~If I'm in charge then thats what i want, no argument.

You see where do you draw the line, on a big site? ?Ok this room runs vertical, but to save time and hassel this room is wired horizontal. Trades that follow have to guess?

Anyhow the regs are flawed in many circumstances, the get out is good workmanship must be used at all times, which of course leads to arguments, as this thread.

I feel your arguement is flawed

If you have a cooker isolator or switched spur controlling an outlet that is not directly below it then using your method the only way is to go to the ceiling and back down to the outlet. It would seem that your installation methods are increasing costs unnecessarily for no good reason. While you may have a case for good workmanship if the installation was a surface one I don't see the point if it is flush

I don't know how old school you are but I have always installed cables and conduits horizontally and vertically as required to provide a functional cost effective installation for the last 35 years as the various editions of the regs have allowed me to. Unless it was previously agreed and priced accordingly I don't see any foreman can add extra requirements to suit himself

While the regs may be flawed it's what we have to work too and comply with or is it ok to deviate from the regs for the sake of good workmanship

Would you insist that the plumber only installed his pipes vertically I think not

 

[sarusystems]

correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought part p related only to domestic installs. a village hall is not domestic

yes this is true but it was on the spec

 

[sarusystems]

7th edition?? - wasn't that around the late 19th Century, when bell wire was OK for Ring Mains? Sorry only kidding.

I have nothing to add to the regulation side, apart from I believe the Horizontal is correct - however who is accurate and who isnt is probably a moot point in this (although in my view you are - right that is). Just a few observations:

a) what were you actually contracted to do - if it was to deliver to 17th edition BR and nothing specific was mentioned - would say you are ok, and you can argue this point. This could take a number of forms
b) Telling him that directly - quoting BR - actually flashing it in his face - preferably done when his subordinates are around to infuriate him further. (although it does have a satisfactory feeling)
c) Maybe going above his head to the Commissioner and suggesting his route with chasing and vertical cables would increase the costs significantly and that as you are getting a fixed rate for this (guessing this) - and that they are actually changing the terms of the contract from a) above - to being specific in how they want it down - rather than to the most cost effective method under the 17th ed BR - is a change in contract and you will have to adjust your costs accordingly.
d) Doyou want to do more work for this "Foreman" or not. Would guess if you argue point a) directly with him by doing b) or c) and win (or lose the argument) that he will black list you in some way from any other local community/council building work - whether legitamately or by just badmouthing you to people who count. Also Commisioners dont like hassle - beaurocrats rarely do - spanners in the works and all that.

jobsworths like this like to be told "Yes Sir, No Sir, Vertical cables it is sir". It comes down to whether your principles for being right and using the correct method that is most cost effective outweigh the value of current and future work from this source.

I would love to hear the story of b - if you get to it - But would suggest sometimes being right doesnt always put bread on the table - who ever said being self employed meant not having to take **** from bosses anymore!

Again only my thoughts on potential outcomes of pushing the point. Hope this helps.

I was employed not by the building company who employ the forman but by the village hall commitee
as the building company quote was some £10,000 pounds more than mine
there are to be wall cupbords but thease may be installed by local residents- hall users who dont know zones from adam
thanks for your input

 

[wattsup]

10 grand more, for a village hall? Well thats the reason the forman has the dolls on....vertical / horizontal, I will aft to differ on that argument. My jobs are all vertical, no leeway. If you guys like to zig-zag all over the place who am I to say you are wrong

 

[wattsup]

'While you may have a case for good workmanship if the installation was a surface one I don't see the point if it is flush'

Do you mean wiring burried in plaster? I don't understand your point, If it were surface you would see it?

Why would you go to ceiling height and back down for a cooker outlet?

 

[UNG]

'While you may have a case for good workmanship if the installation was a surface one I don't see the point if it is flush'

Do you mean wiring burried in plaster? I don't understand your point, If it were surface you would see it?

How else would you do a flush installation, I don't see any problems whether cables are installed horizontally or vertically all it requires is liason with other trades to ensure that the fitting of the fixtures and fittings does not compromise either installation

Surface wiring requires some thought so it does not look badly planned or thought out

Why would you go to ceiling height and back down for a cooker outlet?

You made the case on your jobs the cables must run vertical in walls it would be dangerous to have the cooker isolator directly above the cooker outlet which is normally behind the cooker so how would you do it without running horizontally on a wall