No earth in lighting circuit what next?

[Elliott96]

Im sure this has probably been asked before in this forum but ive just upgraded a fuseboard today and found no earth in the lighting (two core). Obviously the next thing to do would be to tell the customer either rewire or change everything on that circuit to class 2 fittings and accessories, but in this case the customer didnt want to go ahead with either.... what should i do? Cutting the circuit out would be abit extreme?

 

[Elliott96]

So what do you guys do after you replace the consumer unit and then discover that there is no cpc continuity on one metal light switch, but the customer refuses to pay to have the issue resolved. Let's assume that you didn't check every single light switch and every single light fitting before replacing the consumer unit (as some of you definitely appear to do prior to a C/U change), do you then remove the consumer unit and reinstall the one you took out?

You do what im about to do, take payment, cut the circuit out, receive a bad review...

 

[peterhyper]

You do what im about to do, take payment, cut the circuit out, receive a bad review...

Of course you do, daft of me asking.

So they had a lighting circuit before you turned up, and now you've taken their light circuit out. Lets hope granny or the kids don't fall down the dark staircase.

 

[The Ghost]

I think this is a time to take it on the chin and do the work necessary to make it right for free. After all it was your mistake, which we all make so I am not pointing any fingers. You could put to the client you will make sure it is safe by doing the work for free (in writing of course!) if they decline then it is on their head. Or insist any metal fittings have to go again if they decline it is on their head. Anyway that is what I would do as I would never feel right or take pride in my work if I did not operate in that way.
P.S. Are you sure there is no cpc, but just cut back???

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You do what im about to do, take payment, cut the circuit out, receive a bad review...

Good luck with that.Hopefully the Police and Trading Standards won’t get involved.

 

[Andy78]

So what do you guys do after you replace the consumer unit and then discover that there is no cpc continuity on one metal light switch, but the customer refuses to pay to have the issue resolved. Let's assume that you didn't check every single light switch and every single light fitting before replacing the consumer unit (as some of you definitely appear to do prior to a C/U change), do you then remove the consumer unit and reinstall the one you took out?

I can only answer for myself, but assuming there is the presence of a cpc throughout the circuit but just not at this one point, I would refer the customer to our pre agreed terms that any unforseen rectification work would be extra and sort it out at our pre agreed rate.

 

[peterhyper]

I can only answer for myself, but assuming there is the presence of a cpc throughout the circuit but just not at this one point, I would refer the customer to our pre agreed terms that any unforseen rectification work would be extra and sort it out at our pre agreed rate.

But when the customer says they don't want to pay for additional work or can't afford to what do you do then. You obviously can't have a legally binding contract where they are forced to pay you for corrective work they don't want?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

How about this:
You get a call, the guy installing the new smart meter has told someone their old Wylex 3063 fuse box is illegal and they need a new Fuse box.
Not an RCD in sight, no CPC on either lighting circuit and they have a brass 5 lamp chandelier thing in the living with a brass Heritage rope edged light switch, a couple of metal fluorescent light fittings in the kitchen and a chrome shaver socket in the bathroom.
They don’t want the place re-wired, they don’t want to replace the metal fittings with plastic, they just want a new fuse box.
Do you replace the CU and provide RCD protection for all their circuits, or do you walk away hoping nothing will go wrong?

 

[Elliott96]

So what do you guys do after you replace the consumer unit and then discover that there is no cpc continuity on one metal light switch, but the customer refuses to pay to have the issue resolved. Let's assume that you didn't check every single light switch and every single light fitting before replacing the consumer unit (as some of you definitely appear to do prior to a C/U change), do you then remove the consumer unit and reinstall the one you took out?

You do what im about to do, take payment, cut the circuit out, receive a bad review...

Yes why wouldn't I, I take it you just crack and hope for the best.
The good old bang test as no place in modern society.
Agree everything in advance with the customer , charge accordingly, do the job right and I will never have to stand there saying sorry I've dropped a ............... but I'm off to the pub see you later.

So say you get a phone call to put up some metal lights , you arrive and there is no earth.... do you charge the customer for the call out?

 

[DPG]

Class ii? Fit em.

 

[Andy78]

But when the customer says that don't want to pay for additional work or can't afford to what do you do then. You obviously can't have a legally binding contract where they are forced to pay you for corrective work they don't want?

If it was the situation you describe I would correct the fault at my own cost. The way I work I include for a full day's labour with every CU change, so if there are faults that fit into that timescale it's materials only.
I have never been in that situation yet though as I go into a CU change as informed as I can be. If a customer doesn't like the sound of possible remedial work at an agreed rate I would insist on an EICR or not do the job. Neither of those has ever been necessary though.
I have had plenty jobs with unexpected little bits, but none that have gone into a second chargeable day that I can recall.

 

[Andy78]

How about this:
You get a call, the guy installing the new smart meter has told someone their old Wylex 3063 fuse box is illegal and they need a new Fuse box.
Not an RCD in sight, no CPC on either lighting circuit and they have a brass 5 lamp chandelier thing in the living with a brass Heritage rope edged light switch, a couple of metal fluorescent light fittings in the kitchen and a chrome shaver socket in the bathroom.
They don’t want the place re-wired, they don’t want to replace the metal fittings with plastic, they just want a new fuse box.
Do you replace the CU and provide RCD protection for all their circuits, or do you walk away hoping nothing will go wrong?

Walk away having issued danger notice. Done it plenty of times.

 

[peterhyper]

If it was the situation you describe I would correct the fault at my own cost. The way I work I include for a full day's labour with every CU change, so if there are faults that fit into that timescale it's materials only.
I have never been in that situation yet though as I go into a CU change as informed as I can be. If a customer doesn't like the sound of possible remedial work at an agreed rate I would insist on an EICR or not do the job. Neither of those has ever been necessary though.
I have had plenty jobs with unexpected little bits, but none that have gone into a second chargeable day that I can recall.

Do make your customers aware that you include a full days labour in your charges, and if no additional work is required, do you then refund them for the day's labour you charged them for but haven't actually done?

 

[Baddegg]

Do make your customers aware that you include a full days labour in your charges, and if no additional work is required, do you then refund them for the day's labour you charged them for but haven't actually done?

Think he means a full day including the Cu change Peter....

 

[Nebu1a]

On the initial site visit for the estimate drop off one switch, check for bonding etc.. On the day carry out your tests before removing the old fuse-box and probe all metal fittings with the wander lead. If you get any dubious readings or low IRs bring to the customer's attention before commencing. Have a separate price for the testing on the estimate and if necessary walk.

 

[Nebu1a]

The trouble with relying on an RCD to provide protection when there is no CPC is that people never test them. Just the other day I replaced a socket for a customer carried out an RCD test and got over 310ms. Customer had never tested it. Luckily after a manual test it came unstuck and was working within correct tripping times.