On peak off peak wired incorrectly?

[MeganS]

Hi
Absolutely 0 knowledge of this so excuse language / terms / explanation.

Electric only ground floor 2 bed flat ( 3 external walls)

On peak and off peak switches for immersion (water in a tank…goes to kitchen sink , shower , toilet and bathroom sink) - to note - this water is boiling hot - have turned thermostat down multiple times, think we’re on around 30c now????
If I turn ‘ON peak’ switch off & leave just ‘OFF peak’ on we end up without any hot water to sinks and electric shower.

On and off peak switches for storage heater. If I turn ‘ON peak’ switch off, this turns the power off to the storage heater (this is wrong, am I right?) which inevitably then leaves the ‘OFF peak’ switch irrelevant and it’s not doing anything.

Please please please can someone help me with this. I have absolutely no knowledge, I have had 4 electricians round my house and none of them can solve this issue (is it for plumber or electrician or combined???)
My bill is absolutely sky rocketing (not just due to increases as it was this way when I moved into the property 2 years ago and I have tried multiple times to solve) to put this into context I am being billed approx. £350 a month for a 2 bed ground floor flat…. This has been before the price increases also, since 2020 when we moved here and again I should add during winter months so problem kid mainly with storage heaters I believe but also immersion on peak off peak is wrong I believe.
EON refusing to help - say not their fault?
Paying ‘call out’ charges to electricians who cannot help…
My house is becoming covered in mould as I cannot keep up with the bill to heat my home and ventilate it correctly (too cold now with winter and a waste of the heat)
Thanks

 

[MeganS]

Where exactly is the water too hot, sink or shower?

also, where is the thermostat that you are adjusting to change the water temperature?

Both

Thermostat adjustment behind these 2 black knobs - circled in green on photos attached.

 

[MeganS]

Found the key for the meter

 

[MeganS]

Some pictures of the current aet up would help

Without taking any covers off consumer units etc can you photograph your consumer unit and meter set up and post it online?

Several would be good
Close up and from a distance

 

[buzzlightyear]

Thank you for your reply - I am Not sure what this means but assuming you are talking to the other professionals

yes, but I have found were some emersion heater are feed from the socket circuit .

 

[Avo Mk8]

Hi MeganS
In relation to the two switches "off-peak" and "on-peak" connected with white wires to the immersion heaters, could you follow the cable from the bottom switch and check if it goes to the bottom or top immersion, and similarly the other cable from the top switch goes to which immersion?
I am puzzled by the fact that the light is lit on the bottom switch - did you take the photo during the day, or at night (or to be more accurate, during 'off-peak)?
It would be good to know if the switches are labelled the right way round, and the above might confirm!

PS photo's of your meter etc helpful thank you!

 

[MeganS]

Hi MeganS
In relation to the two switches "off-peak" and "on-peak" connected with white wires to the immersion heaters, could you follow the cable from the bottom switch and check if it goes to the bottom or top immersion, and similarly the other cable from the top switch goes to which immersion?
I am puzzled by the fact that the light is lit on the bottom switch - did you take the photo during the day, or at night (or to be more accurate, during 'off-peak)?
It would be good to know if the switches are labelled the right way round, and the above might confirm!

PS photo's of your meter etc helpful thank you!

Thank you.
- Off peak switch cable goes to the top knob. - On peak switch cable goes to the bottom knob.

Which would appear correct?

 

[Avo Mk8]

Thank you.
- Off peak switch cable goes to the top knob. - On peak switch cable goes to the bottom knob.

Which would appear correct?

Not in my opinion!
I'm thinking what you call a knob is the cover of each immersion heater, which has the thermostat adjusting knob in it.

The bottom immersion is there to heat the whole tank, and that is the one normally powered by off-peak.
The upper immersion is for a "boost" if you run out of hot, normally fed from on-peak.
Does the light on the on-peak switch actually stay on all the time?

My first thought is that they are wired the wrong way round, but at this time of night I could be wrong. No doubt someone will be along to comment!

 

[marconi]

How far away from the Dartford Crossing is your home?

 

[Avo Mk8]

Following on from my comment above, it still could be that both immersion heaters are running from the on-peak supply, together with the hall heater as mentioned previously. The thermostat in the bottom immersion seems to need attention, all as per Snowhead in post #11, as well as checking that the upper immersion is actually functioning.

 

[Avo Mk8]

So far it appears:

• the 'off-peak' section of the consumer unit seems to be fed from a DNO/Eon contactor, so should actually be 'off-peak'!
• (anybody care to comment on the presumably timed neutral feed to the contactor from meter, what's the other to the Henley?)
• the right hand 'off-peak' MCB position labelled 'immersion' has had the breaker removed
• so we don't know where power for the immersion heaters is now coming from.
• the bottom immersion heater works, but seems to need a new thermostat
• the top immersion heater does not work, but we don't know if it's lack of power, fuse, thermal cutout or faulty element etc.
• the flex to each of the immersion heaters seems to be transposed compared with what you would expect.
• the 3 x 500W Dinplex (presumably panel, not storage) heaters in the hallway are powered from peak rate electricity, which may be correct for that type of heater,

You would think it would be relatively straightforward for a competent electrician to sort this out !

 

[snowhead]

So far it appears:

• (anybody care to comment on the presumably timed neutral feed to the contactor from meter, what's the other to the Henley?)

The meter timed auxiliary contact has N in sourced from the Henley and N sw out to contactor.

It does seem there has been some interference with the original setup, for unknown reasons.

What needs investigating is;

Do both immersion heaters work when powered, if not replace as required,

Do the thermostats in each heater control that heater correctly when set to the appropriate temperature, if not replace as required,

Is the top heater controlled by a switch labelled ON Peak (preferably the upper switch to avoid confusion) which is supplied from the ON peak section of the Consumer unit, if not reconnect / relabel as required,

Is the lower heater controlled by a switch labelled OFF Peak (preferably the lower switch to avoid confusion) which is supplied from the OFF peak section of the Consumer unit, currently missing an MCB to be able to do that, if not reconnect / relabel as required,

 

[brianmoooore]

Have we established whether there is a Horstmann E7 style water heating controller in the property?
The most worrying aspect of this is that four electricians have already visited and failed to sort what appears to be a fairly simple problem for anyone worthy of that title.

 

[MeganS]

Not in my opinion!
I'm thinking what you call a knob is the cover of each immersion heater, which has the thermostat adjusting knob in it.

The bottom immersion is there to heat the whole tank, and that is the one normally powered by off-peak.
The upper immersion is for a "boost" if you run out of hot, normally fed from on-peak.
Does the light on the on-peak switch actually stay on all the time?

My first thought is that they are wired the wrong way round, but at this time of night I could be wrong. No doubt someone will be along to comment!

Yes sorry the black cap is what I am referring to (thermostat underneath I believe)

The photo I took was at 10am yesterday which would mean the light should be off - but yes light stays on always. Attached another photo which was taken just now at 10:25.
When we turn it off we are left without hot water which sparks my concern that it’s all wired incorrectly (or is it as simple as labelled?)

 

[MeganS]

So far it appears:

• the 'off-peak' section of the consumer unit seems to be fed from a DNO/Eon contactor, so should actually be 'off-peak'!
• (anybody care to comment on the presumably timed neutral feed to the contactor from meter, what's the other to the Henley?)
• the right hand 'off-peak' MCB position labelled 'immersion' has had the breaker removed
• so we don't know where power for the immersion heaters is now coming from.
• the bottom immersion heater works, but seems to need a new thermostat
• the top immersion heater does not work, but we don't know if it's lack of power, fuse, thermal cutout or faulty element etc.
• the flex to each of the immersion heaters seems to be transposed compared with what you would expect.
• the 3 x 500W Dinplex (presumably panel, not storage) heaters in the hallway are powered from peak rate electricity, which may be correct for that type of heater,

You would think it would be relatively straightforward for a competent electrician to sort this out !

Majority of bullet points are a little tricky for me to understand but thank you, will keep these all noted.

Just a point re your last point as I struggle to understand this too re the panel heaters and you are correct they are panel not storage.
So each of these (hallway, room 1 and room 2) have their own switch - shouldn’t be connected to on peak or off peak at all. When I do my maths to work out the costs (wattage x hours on x day rate/night rate) let’s take the highest day rate for example:
0.5KW x 5 hours x 0.44p kw/h = £1.1 so it should be costing me approx £1.10p to run these for 5 hours a day however when I pop these on and watch my ‘smart meter’ (the little screen thing I have plugged in at home) it drinks pounds for fun… and uses far more than £1.10p
I was under the impression these would not run off the on peak / off peak and just simply on day rate / night rate

 

[MeganS]

Have we established whether there is a Horstmann E7 style water heating controller in the property?
The most worrying aspect of this is that four electricians have already visited and failed to sort what appears to be a fairly simple problem for anyone worthy of that title.

Hi Brian
No I do not have this inside / or outside my home.
Thank you