Part P training . It must be stopped

[Gary Soulsby]

As most of you are aware part p was introduced in 2005. This has lead to a huge surge in people becoming part p registered installers. This is not the issue although anyone who works on electrical installations should have "sufficient" knowledge and training as to minimise risk.

The approved appretiship does this as anyone wanting to become qualified has to obtain level 2&3 technical cert and level 3 NVQ as well as sit the AM2 test.

Currently company's are offering training to become an approved domestic installer in 5 DAYS!!
That isn't even enough time to get someone entirely used to useing the regs book never mind classified as "competent"

In the end of the day these people are taking the easy option, of which I understand but that should not come at the price of safety and the loss of work of approved electricians that have spent 3-5 years training.

Find attacked the link to a petition stop the training of these under qualified "electricians"

Petition: Scrap Part P, someone with 5 days experience is not safe to work on electrics - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207481/sponsors/new?token=xUnMdAVdRq7xSzVHb68h

 

[Octopus]

The "gravy" train left the station a long time ago and nothing will stop it now.

The problem, as I see it, isn't Part P .................its the total absence of anyone or anybody actually doing anything to uphold standards AND holding people accountable for dodgy work ........... whether it be electrics or any other trade...

 

[The Ghost]

Your telling me 23day

Are you sure you are quoting the right person? How did you divine I said that to you? I am not telling you anything I asked you a question or two. Try re-reading what you just quoted.

 

[Gary Soulsby]

Are you sure you are quoting the right person? How did you divine I said that to you? I am not telling you anything I asked you a question or two. Try re-reading what you just quoted.

NICEIC actually does have a certified scheme for someone with these qualifications . Theoretically you can do 23 days total training then set up your own company doing work in people's houses on your own. Any electrician should find this desturbing that people's houses where there family sleep could have potentially been wired and certified by someone who didn't have a clue less than a month ago.

I personally think it's wrong and anyone who works on electrical installations should as I said have sufficient knowledge as to prevent risk. Admitidly domestic is not rocket science but the slightest mistake can have drastic consiquences .

Electricians are paid for what they know not what they do

 

[The Ghost]

You still have not answered my question. I often cite the 18 year old who has finished a three year course and does not have a clue how to even wire up a socket properly. Courses do not an electrician make! Experience allied with the knowledge gleaned on courses make an electrician. Experience being the key to a good rounded electrician. Courses can only teach so much. For instance on testing and inspection and commissioning; You can learn text book testing pass your practical and go out into the real world. You may get for instance on an RFC test 0.5 0/0.5 r1 rn then 5 ohms on r2. What are you to make of this??? A course will not teach this, anomalous results are the acid test of an electrician and how it is dealt with and understood. Getting rid of Part P will in no way even begin to deal with this aspect of training. What the answer is I don't know and I am sure the person who thinks of it will be rich.

 

[Toneyz]

What does the C & G 2393-10 teach you?

 

[Pete999]

What does the C & G 2393-10 teach you?

After a day you become a "Part P Installer" da da that is after they have spent a day telling you something you should know already, after spending £180 of your hard earned, so you get there at 08:30 chat till 10:00 10:30 TILL 13:00 Lunch till 14:00 till 15:30 for tea finish say at 17:00, money for old rope in my book.

 

[Gary Soulsby]

Part P Electrical Course for Electrical Installation - https://www.electricianacademy.co.uk/partp-electrical-course

Advertising that Part P can work on shops and pubs .

 

[Octopus]

Advertising that Part P can work on shops and pubs .

The reality is that there is absolutely nothing stopping any tom, dick or abdul doing any form of building work ............. let alone sparking

 

[Stspark]

The petition should be against the schemes (niceic, napit, stroma) for giving accreditation for the title 'domestic installer' and in doing so creating a market for short courses from various training providers (who are no doubt linked to the schemes themselves!).
Ultimately nothing will change, until we electricians stop paying the annual fee's to the schemes.

 

[Des 56]

I think the petitions era has passed,nobody will give two monkeys about any petition,if a select committee can be ignored and dismissed with ease,what chance a petition


Now,my wish list

Abolish that part P registered nonsense ,no more worries about the Part P qualified this and that

Open up all domestic installation work unrestricted to whoever believes they can do that work
(It does not really require a full blown electrician to work on domestic wiring,a decent head and pair of hands and its well within most peoples capability)

The government could make compulsory an inspection report for all new build and house sales like they were intending

We could campaign to get a register of electricians who can do these reports,possibly on behalf of a Government agency which has set fees for these inspections

Heres to dreaming I suppose

 

[Midwest]

After a day you become a "Part P Installer" da da that is after they have spent a day telling you something you should know already, after spending £180 of your hard earned, so you get there at 08:30 chat till 10:00 10:30 TILL 13:00 Lunch till 14:00 till 15:30 for tea finish say at 17:00, money for old rope in my book.

It don't Pete. I did a 2393-10, I could of just read the book. A guy on my 1 day course thought it would give him the ability to notify without being in a scheme. Our trainer told him to go downstairs to the training establishment admin dept and get a refund.

 

[Pete999]

It don't Pete. I did a 2393-10, I could of just read the book. A guy on my 1 day course thought it would give him the ability to notify without being in a scheme. Our trainer told him to go downstairs to the training establishment admin dept and get a refund.

Part P City & Guilds 2393 1 Day Course - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/courses/part-p-2393

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I know several people who have gone down the supposed Electrical Trainee route, one is a former finance broker in the city and lost nearly everything in 2008 when it all went belly up. He did a group of courses in 2010 with one of these training providers and is a DI with NICEIC
He knows his limitations, but having worked with him he is methodical, safety conscious, sits down and does his calculations for voltage drop and cable loads etc.. His work is of a very high and good standard.
Another person is a fellow ex serviceman who after having some mental health difficulties after Iraq. Struggled and had his DI training paid for with one of the training warehouses, he was a helicopter technician in the forces and again his work on electrics is excellent, he is very good at testing and inspecting and methodical and safe in finding faults.
Both of these guys I would sooner have working on my own home or my families than supposed time served apprentices or people with all the paper but no brain cells. Neither could go down the apprenticeship and 3 years of training route, Both know their limitations and work safely within it keeping them and customers safe.
Qualifications in themselves mean nothing, experience helps, but there are many competent DI's out there with little proper experience who i would sooner see working than so called qualified electricians doing poor and unsafe work.
Part P in itself is well intended but a part p building regs course alone wont get you in one of the schemes , we joke about how easy it is, but if you speak to the regional assessors they do refuse quite a few applications to the schemes. Its just nobody ever admits to it and carry on doing jobs regardless!!
Overall its made the industry safer! as the Electrical Trainee's are at least supervised even if minimally and that is better than somebody doing whatever with no oversight. Yes, you get some working beyond their skills and ability but these are far out weighed by the people doing things according to regs safely and appropriately.
I think anybody paying around 3k for a group of courses plus more for testing kit and tools to enter the industry as a DI doesnt do it lightly, thats quite an outlay for somebody to be a cowboy or somebody who doesn't care about their work and safety.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

Actually they are quite intense. The problem is that there’s no proper evaluation of skills learnt (or not).

I could equally come back with apprenticeships basically being 1 year of getting the tea and tartan paint and two years doing the donkey work, whilst learning a bit.

Neither my description, or yours is accurate.

It’s all down to the (ironically) the testing of the course member imho. They let anyone “pass”.

Your telling me 23days is sufficient to be able to sign off there own work in a domestic premises ?

Domestic Electrical Installer TS4U-25: Silver - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/courses/domestic-electrician-installer-ts4u25

After a day you become a "Part P Installer" da da that is after they have spent a day telling you something you should know already, after spending £180 of your hard earned, so you get there at 08:30 chat till 10:00 10:30 TILL 13:00 Lunch till 14:00 till 15:30 for tea finish say at 17:00, money for old rope in my book.

 

[cprfenom]

In fairness they do not let everyone pass. I agree with @Spoon that its being miss sold.

Knowing your own limitations and knowing when to admit you dont know something is key

Experience is everything!