Part P

DurhamSparky · Jun 26, 2010

Just to sum it up

Part P is a building Regulation that is statutory and which must be followed when carrying out electrical work in domestic property.

Part P is NOT a qualification and any body going around saying they are Part P qualified and have a certificate are talking Bull....!! You DO NOT need to do a 2 week VRQ course
Electrical Course | Part P Electricial Course like this one with a training scheme to register as a Competent Person.

YOU NEED TO BE COMPETENT....!! this can be achieved by undertaking formal Electrical Quals at a college or by a training provider...!!

You do however need to know about the building Regs and Part P....!! you can download Approved Document P from the planning portal website.

The following schemes are the most popular with domestic sparks. Elecsa, Niceic and Napit. Upon registration with them you will be required to conduct a formal technical site assessment that will involve you changing or modifying the electrical set up drastically (Rewire/ Cu Change)

If you pass the assessment you are then freely allowed to carry out work in areas designated by building control that fall under the Part P umbrella http://www.partp.co.uk/downloads/public/CLGbuildingworkleaflet.pdf and any work that you carry out can be notified and signed off through them (the schemes) at a small cost (£2-4) and they will inform LABC for you.

If you decide not to register with a Part P scheme. be preared that notification of work to LABC can cost hundreds of pounds and drastically increase your price. They will also expect you to still carry out the tests and paperwork before they arrive to SIGN IT OFF

Recommended courses to do are:

A formal Technical Certificate that is achieved at Level 3 on the NQF (National Qualification Framework) i.e

C&G 2330 or BTEC Advanced/National Diploma.... This gives you the Underpinning Knowledge to build on. (achieved via college or distance learning 18months - 24months is time scale)

You will also Need 17th Edition Wiring Regulations C&G 2382 (if you dont have this you wont get any where in the trade.)

NVQ 3 2356 (its a Craft Certificate that although not needed is very desirable and normally achieved when doing an Apprenticeship but now freely available to "Bolt on" to your current Qualifications via distant learning.

C&G 2391 the ultimate qualification in the electrical world..! Inspection and Testing only to be achieved with considerable site and technical knowledge, closed book exam with a 30-40% pass rate.

C&G 2392 (lesser qualification of the 2391 and aimed at new sparks with little knowledge of inspection and testing, normally used as a starter course to grasp the fundamentals of what's required)

Signing off your work..!!!

you DO NOT need 2391 to sign of your work but you will be expected to have knowledge of inspection and testing to an achievable standard required to carry out and fill in the test results.
You also do not Need 2391 to carry out PIR's but should any thing happen and you go to court the 2391 certificate is your lifeline to prove competence in the field.

hope this helps...

comments and alterations welcome

Daytona955 · Feb 19, 2011

Hmm seems im not the only one retraining and confused. Done c&g 2330 level 2&3 , taking a part P exam monday which looks a nightmare not worth doing, and 17th in a months time. Phoned Napit, i have to take the 17th and the 2391 within 12 months of joining them. No mention of needing any part P, just going to do it cos it was thrown in free and all certs look good i guess. Anyway ive found something online that looks to me like you can sit at home and take the test online Part P - Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings | learn17thedition, Information resource website and Exam Practice Trainer . If thats the case sat there with your book open why am i reading about every bit of building legislation going to sit an exam monday :/ And its only 69 quid!

mattmoo1974 · Feb 19, 2011

Ah the never ending Part P saga lol
PART P HAS THE BUILDING REGS BUILT INTO IT. This is a qualification. Part P Shows Joe bloggs where to route cables,depth,Basic cable cals,What Mcb's etc etc to use.And not wanting to take it away from the ppl who have done there Apprenticeship/NVQ 3. The Ppl that just do part p 17th and a test course of some kind. Will come unstuck when they get a problem. Because your full blown Spark has had all that extra training(How an RCD works/why etc etc) they will be called in. I can see why the full sparks get on 1 about these short courses. But you are nt just stuck on Domestic you have the Commercial and industrial field as well. Mr Short course is nt gunna start dicking around with 3 phase(Unless hes brainless). Also can you see Mr short Course passing 2391 within a year after doing a Part P course and the regs? Think Napit are playing a very clever card there lol. What happens if you dont pass? Are all your Certs invalid? I am an old fart now (37) im never going to get an apprenticeship not that there are any out there! Iv retrained 2330 lvl2/3 17th Part P and 2391 cant ever see i ll be able to get my NVQ the way things are. so im stuff doing domestic by the looks of it. I hope i wont get classed as a short course wonder

Daytona955 · Feb 19, 2011

To be honest i dont know how people manage on a 5 day course. Ive been studying this stuff for a year now and ive struggled even coming from an engineering background, and thats just to learn the basics. I knew if i went for a 5 day thing and i had a client ask a weird question id never have been able to give a professional and tecnical answer and just looked a plonker. I guess some guys learn as a mate or something before doing the real short course. Im 41 and have learnt as much in a year part time as i did as an apprentice at 16 - 20 because ive wanted to. Im a realist and know this is going to take time and am going to start up part time around main job to see where it all goes. But i do think these courses ought to come with a warning, i saw so many pay so much just to fail badly. Plus i think theres a change in the law coming up this year that ends the 5 day course as it will demand a level 3 qual if not already in a registered organisation. Thats what ive seen on forums but noone seems to know ... think you will need the nvq3 which im hoping to fill out self employed. Some say the level 3 2330 will do. Dunno but get in with Napit or someone now may be wise.

mattmoo1974 · Feb 19, 2011

I did Part P along side my 2330 level 2, So i was clued up with it it all. They must ram building regs down for throat for 5 days solid is all i can say.
Iv passed my 2330 lvl2,17th regs, 2391. Doing lvl3
I failed my online regs twice(Part P). I dont mind admitting it :S

Daytona955 · Feb 19, 2011

Ive been complacent mate. Thought i didnt need to learn much for the part P. Ooohhh i was so wrong. Thought when level 3 was over all would be simple. Now im banging away at mock online tests . Mindu who the hell makes up things like depth of channeling, size of hole in joist, 1200mm to top of switch etc? Id like that job !

madmac · Feb 20, 2011

The Daily Star have allowed an advert to appear all last week which is proclaiming to train anyone up to be a fully qualified 17th edition electrician in only 70 days!!!
The SJIB was approached and asked about this and they say they DON'T recognise it. PHEW! However they do say that the English JIB DO recognise it and not only that will issue a grade card on completion!!! I think this is the slippery slope for the industry as a whole, and don't expect mobs to worry as it can only be good for their profit margins by using monkeys and paying them peanuts!

Daytona955 · Feb 20, 2011

I thought to be FULLY qualified you needed X amount of years experience after certain courses for the JIB ?

johnboy6083 · Feb 20, 2011

big sigh! its gona be us on site, who have to train these so called qualified electricians how to do their job. and they will no doubt be on the same money. ive got no problems helping people out and showing them something they haven't done or seen before, as i still ask when needed, but surely this cant be right? domestic work is one thing, but if the JIB are giving these people cards and grading them, then we will start seeing them on industrial and commercial sites, where i beleive more experience is needed. Its one thing working under a supervisor all the time, but these people will be expected to be able to work unsupervised.

what do you lads think?

madmac · Feb 20, 2011

Thanks lads my sentiments exactly, by the way nobody including myself is trying to stop people getting on in the world with regards to better jobs BUT these training centres are exaggerating about qualifications and experience needed simply to get bums on seats and make profits!!! They couldn't give a ---- about the industry standards and the guys doing it are only getting conned! And the guys doing these short-fast track courses can get off their high horses about sparks being angry because if the shoe was on the other foot what would they do?.........open arms and welcome all on-board to steal their jobs?......I don't think so!!!

Daytona955 · Feb 21, 2011

I dont mean to offend as im new here and dont want to go against the grain but i believe when the law changed that electricians had to self cert their work if they forced in the law there were so many practicing electricians ( very good ones who had been at it decades ) with no quals the country that if they didnt invent the 5 day fast track there wouldnt have been enough left to go around if they all got the boot. Maybe these days its being abused though but im certain new law is coming in july of this year although when i asked Napit they reckoned they hadnt heard of any. Oh and i emailed the JIB 2 days ago to see where i stand with them with what ive done so far...awaiting response. Think you may find the daily star course can make you an electrical improver which sounds good to a client but its someone in training as im sure you all know.

mike2790 · Mar 24, 2011

alrite fella's, i'm a recently qualified electrician and am awaiting the delivery of my JIB card. i live in the isle of man at the minute and this is where i have served my time. i have the 17th edition and 2330 and am actively looking into doing my 2391 qualification. in a few weeks i am moving back home to liverpool and looking to go part time self employed until i can build up enough work to go full time self employed. im a bit stuck as how to go about it and wondered if any of you guys could suggest anything as any advice would be greatly appreciated. mainly i will be looking to pick up work on the domestic/commercial scene and will need to be registered with a part p scheme for the domestic side of things. yet to be part p registered under a scheme i need to provide evidence of work i have done to an investigator which would mean i will have done the work without part p registration. its a catch 22 situation whereby in this instance i will either have to work without part p or not work at all. or am i just being 'tim, nice but dim' about things. it seems to me that for all us sparks who want to do things the right way, theres a lot of hurdles, yet theres still monkeys out there wiring 32 ring circuits in black and red 1.5 t&e. any advice regarding the transition from cards-in to self-employed would be greatly appreciated too. looking forward to some replys.
cheers
michael

toto · Mar 24, 2011

I take it someone attendinga 70 day course wouldn't be able to self certify doemstic work on conmpleteition?!

lauriehurman · Mar 25, 2011

70 day course? - No, a 17 (yes seventeen) day course will get you 5 day introduction to being a "domestic installer", a 4 day introduction to Part P, 2382 and 2392.
You then have to apply to become a member of one of the schemes to self certify your work.

It seems to me that there are two things to say about the situation;
The above courses will cost you about £2000 plus accommodation. That's quite an investment and commitment by anyone.
and - in order to become a member of one of the schemes you have to be inspected. That means two examples of you installations and your office set up and bookkeeping. As Mike points out in order to do those two jobs you have to inform the local authority building control and pay for them to inspect your work to make it legal.

I think it's fair enough for experienced Sparkys to say if they think that the situation will have an effect on standards and safety. I am much less sympathetic to people who appear to just be complaining that a dilution of the workforce will lead to lower wages.

Laurie

Daytona955 · Apr 3, 2011

Hey Mike. I found myself similar but have been lucky enough to find some work for the company i did the course on wiring up their new plumbing training centre . However you can do work in your own house if easier and be assessed there. All you need is a friend wanting 2 new circuits..ie downlights and a socket. I think its a test of you and your compidence more than what you just wired up mate.

mike2790 · Apr 3, 2011

cheers daytona, the CU in my parents needs doing anyway so thats one of the jobs out the way, im sure i can find something else i can work my magic on around their place.