Payment Companies

[VoltzElectrical]

but if trying to appeal to a mass audience...such as an electorate....what grabs the headlines more?....a bit of NI the government missed out on....or falling unemployment figures?...

But the work is still there to be done. it's just a question of HOW it's payed for. The companies profiting from this loophole should not be doing so at the expense of the guy doing the work.

Let's keep the focus on the real issue here.

The work needs to be done, let's stop greedy middle men from dodging their responsibilities.

 

[Marvo]

This is only one of a few issues that need sorting out within the industry. The other main one is the need for electricians to have a 'license to practice' like they do in America, Australia, NZ to name a few

These sound like completely separate and unconnected issues. The 'license to practice'would be an industry internal issue not a national government one surely...

Surely the JIB grading is as good as a 'license to practice' isn't it?

Sorry if these are stupid questions but I have zero knowledge of the UK electrical industry. I'm learning fairly quickly though

 

[VoltzElectrical]

These sound like completely separate and unconnected issues. The 'license to practice'would be an industry internal issue not a national government one surely...

Surely the JIB grading is as good as a 'license to practice' isn't it?

Sorry if these are stupid questions but I have zero knowledge of the UK electrical industry. I'm learning fairly quickly though

Yes they are separate, but not unconnected issues. The current government requires certain electrical work to be 'notified' to the local authority. To do this, you can either pay them to come out and inspect the work (very expensive) or notify under a 'scheme'. The madness is though, that to be a member of a 'scheme' you don't have to be a qualified electrician. You only have to be deemed 'competent' which largely involves paying the membership fees.

So although they seem unconnected, they are connected as the whole thing falls under the 'government' and the way the industry is regulated.

 

[flyingsausage]

One spark approached his Labour MP in Glasgow about this two years ago when they were still in power,he pointed out serveral Government funded jobs that this was happening on(a prison,serveral hosiptal jobs etc).

The response was 'any employment is good employment' to say he was angry was a an understatement.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Whereas in the aforementioned countries, you have to take the underpinning knowledge exams, and a trade competency exam, before getting a licence to practice. There is no way you can just apply to a scheme to come out, check a socket installation, see your copy of the regs and cheap as chips PL insurance, take £500 then off you go.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

While time served, excellent sparks, are not allowed to do domestic notifiable works unless they pay their dues to a 'scheme'. No wonder they are called scams.

 

[flyingsausage]

Yes they are separate, but not unconnected issues. The current government requires certain electrical work to be 'notified' to the local authority. To do this, you can either pay them to come out and inspect the work (very expensive) or notify under a 'scheme'. The madness is though, that to be a member of a 'scheme' you don't have to be a qualified electrician. You only have to be deemed 'competent' which largely involves paying the membership fees.

So although they seem unconnected, they are connected as the whole thing falls under the 'governmet' and the way the industry is regulated.

The only time there is any sort of regulation in this industry is when someone gets hurt or dies.

We also need some clarification on the term 'competent person' which is a very loose term at the best.
How can a five week wonder who has bliffed his way through the 2391 be classed as 'competent' against a spark who has been in the trade 20 years but does not have the 2391 ?

 

[flyingsausage]

So the UK government is happy with the status quo even though it's being used as a mechanism to avoid national insurance?

The last Labour lot brushed this under the carpet many times as they were chasing big companies for some donation money.
This government will be no different

 

[flyingsausage]

While time served, excellent sparks, are not allowed to do domestic notifiable works unless they pay their dues to a 'scheme'. No wonder they are called scams.

I do not do domestic work myself but I do agree with you.
This forces most domestic work to be dome on the side or cash in hand.
On every job I go onto nom there is alway some spark with a rewire or a garage to wire or put up some new lights - will any of this work ever get checked no chance.
I do notice that the odd sparks that I do not rate work wise and would not let wire a plug in my house always seem to have plenty off work on the side.

 

[flyingsausage]

These sound like completely separate and unconnected issues. The 'license to practice'would be an industry internal issue not a national government one surely...

Surely the JIB grading is as good as a 'license to practice' isn't it?

Sorry if these are stupid questions but I have zero knowledge of the UK electrical industry. I'm learning fairly quickly though

The full UK electrical industry needs looked into from top to bottom and all the non qualified and cowboys need kicked out of the trade - but it will never happen as money will always win

 

[Marvo]

The full UK electrical industry needs looked into from top to bottom and all the non qualified and cowboys need kicked out of the trade - but it will never happen as money will always win

Why are you so pessimistic when I keep reading about the gas industry seems to have got it right? Why is the electrical industry so different?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

The last Labour lot brushed this under the carpet many times as they were chasing big companies for some donation money.
This government will be no different

of course not...they`l just pick up the ball and run with it....in their eyes it aint broke...so why fix it..lol....i agree that the term `competent person` is crude but if we go down the road that the americans have...it will mean that nobody can undertake work within their own property....a right old police state that would be.....the issue with these part p schemes...is someone who has undertaken the C&G2382 is deemed competent....now anyone who has done this course will know that its really just an on line guess....open book, on line.....not really challenging.....there no requirement to take a qual in inspection and testing either.......its not good enough but they wont raise the goalposts as they know that if they do....there`l be loads that wont make the mark....or thats what they think anyway.....its mad....

 

[VoltzElectrical]

The only time there is any sort of regulation in this industry is when someone gets hurt or dies.

We also need some clarification on the term 'competent person' which is a very loose term at the best.
How can a five week wonder who has bliffed his way through the 2391 be classed as 'competent' against a spark who has been in the trade 20 years but does not have the 2391 ?

surely a 'licence to practice' would eliminate this, as all electrical work would require a 'licensed' electrician who would have to have passed a set of competency exams including the underpinning knowledge?

This would not have to exclude people who re-train later in life (such as myself) but surely exclude 5 week wonders.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

what we have at the mo Marvo...is a system that favours paying a fee....regardless of the feepayers ability to do the work to industry standards.....what this means is you are getting wholly unsuitable people with a licence to install at will....and very bad install it is n all sometimes.....i mean, where do you think all the pics that get posted in here come from?...who do you think`s responsible for a lot of it?......yes, some of its DIY charlie.....but a lot of its kitchen fitters who paid into a scheme....but cant do it to acceptable standards...hell they may have even got someone to install the assessment work for em......thats how slack it all is.....

 

[VoltzElectrical]

These sound like completely separate and unconnected issues. The 'license to practice'would be an industry internal issue not a national government one surely...

Surely the JIB grading is as good as a 'license to practice' isn't it?

Sorry if these are stupid questions but I have zero knowledge of the UK electrical industry. I'm learning fairly quickly though

If only the JIB grade were good enough...

in truth, JIB graded sparks aren't deemed 'qualified' to work on domestic properties without spending a further £500 a year to 'prove' their competency to do so. But this doesn't apply to work on commercial or industrial sites.


This is madness in the extreme, when you consider that guys who have done a 5 week course and pay the fees to the scams, can go and do the work! Where is the sense in all of this?

It's just pure corruption.