PIR - EICR documentation

[NMc]

Good to see one scheme provider is ready. However there have all had the same time to prepair. The same time we have had to run our stocks of PIRs down

In the ideal world this should have happened

COMPLAIN TO YOUR SERVICE PROVIDERS if you feel let down by them. you may get compo

 

[UNG]

dear Sir, there has been some delay in providing the new forms. We cannot comment on other suppliers. However the NICEIC are now stocking the new EICRs are are available from NICEIC direct. Regards, NICEIC Technical Although to be fair at least NICEIC have answered the question plus they have their documentation ready but it where is the "Joined up thinking here"

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Given they sit on a lot of the committees that formulate the regs you would think they had a head start it's not as if they had to wait for publication before they knew what was in the BGB. It's a bit of a lame excuse for not having them ready shortly after publication of the BGB god forbid we had a clued up customer that wanted a EICR last july

 

[needasparks]

What if your doing a PIR on a large building that was started before the deadline and wont complete till after ?
I have done many large inspections that take weeks to complete. Not having that issue myself but wondered how you would stand as the contract would have been to the old pir standard, my take on it is that it would still be valid.

 

[silver surfer]

What if your doing a PIR on a large building that was started before the deadline and wont complete till after ?
I have done many large inspections that take weeks to complete. Not having that issue myself but wondered how you would stand as the contract would have been to the old pir standard, my take on it is that it would still be valid.

i"m thinking the same thing

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As the ammended Regulations only apply to installations designed from the 1st of January 2012.
I would expect that any PIR started before that date could be to either the ammended or pre-ammended Regulations.
Obviously such would be subject to agreement before the work commenced.

 

[NMc]

What you are doing (inspection & test) has not changed its the way you report it thats all!!!!!!!!!!!

Amendment 1 has been coming for a while. It had a consultation period before being issued with a six month lead in. This lead period has allowed all of us to plan for the use of the new report.

If you have a large building you should have factored that into your reports and discussed it with the client. He may not understand his requirements but he exspected a competent inspector to know what he is doing and what reports is needed by the client

How many jobs take longer than six months?

 

[baldsparkies]

I think from what I'm reading here most are coming from the same direction. Problem is we are the men in the field. The pen pushers who think up all these wonderful ideas are (once again) nowhere to be seen.
As Oldtimer says, the NICEIC are NOW providing the appropriate EICR as opposed to PIR's. But and its a big but, they have only JUST started doing it. So much for a 7 month lead in.
Now, here is my thought on the situation based IMHO on a common sense and dare I say helpful aproach to electrical contractors and tradesman in the situation.
Unlike a change in regulations that can directly effect the way an installation is constructed or improved upon by way of safety or otherwise.
A report on the electrical condition of an installation is just that (A REPORT) And its based on the written opinion of the person or persons signing that report.
The FORMAT or WORDING of that report has absolutely no affect on the condition or safety of that installation as it stands, because your not altering or working on the installation other than to examine, and REPORT back to your client the condition of that installation.
That said,and this is where my gripe kicks in.
If a PIR has been conducted or an EICR, by virtue of the fact that it has been completed correctly, and by a competant person, I can see no reason why either document, should not be considered valid.
You can't simply say a document dated today is valid. But if you date it tommorrow its not, although, thats exactly what has happened.
As far as I am concerned the phase in PERIOD of the new documents should have been provided by the governing bodies/suppliers on a supply and demand basis. ie as they start to supply the new EICR, the older type PIR would be gradually phased out/used up. With the new being supplied and phased in.
Thats is NOT the way that this has happened. Instead warnings of the changes have been publicised even advertised to the TRADE with pricing for attending refresher courses ect. But no real action or help regarding implementation.
That is WHY I am annoyed that A cut off date of the 1st of january this year has been virtually made mandatory, leaving the poor old PIR out in the cold like some disregarded worthless piece of paper. That in my humble opinion is WRONG. Yes I am 59 this year, Yes I have been in the trade commercial and domestic from age 17, and Yes I smell a rat on this kind of administrative (cut off date without support from scheme provider) nonsense, which I am convinced as been motivated primarily for profitable reasons, and is no help whatso-ever to the poor old sparks.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with change for the better.
But I no longer kid myself when poor implementation practices are being observed (Thats what generates threads like this)
Or in some cases change for change sake, ching ching !!
The PIR and EICR should BOTH have been readily available to sparkies for a phase out phase in period of at least six months. Instead of suddenly being made available ON a cut off date that makes the old format instantly obsolete. WRONG! very WRONG.
Yet another rant over. _

 

[oldtimer]

Well Baldsparkies I could not agree with you more and as a 53 year old I hope no one is saying I am grumpy but if I ran my business the way these fools virtually run our trade I would be bankcrupt and yes they should have had EICR running alongside the PIR but then again they actually did in a way as long as you wanted electronic paperwork that sucks ink out of the printer by the litre and yes this changing the BRB to the BGB and then the onsite guide and then the II&TEE (thats PAT testing and they cannot even get this right as they still call it PAT testing) which is now in the process of being changed yep change for change sake The thing is when the regulations are to be reviewed they are around like bees to the honeypot so I have said it before there are to many cooks in the kitchen and as they say a Camel is actually a horse designed by a commitee and that about sums this whole debacle up

 

[netblindpaul]

If the cowboys were ousted and all of us & all works HAD to comply with the "regs" "in full" then there would be no issue as everyone would be facing the same cost changes to their overheads, thus they would all be looking to cover the same overheads and the clients would not be able to find any "back door" providers.

 

[UNG]

If the cowboys were ousted and all of us & all works HAD to comply with the "regs" "in full" then there would be no issue as everyone would be facing the same cost changes to their overheads, thus they would all be looking to cover the same overheads and the clients would not be able to find any "back door" providers.

I think they call that utopia and that does not exist in the real world

 

[baldsparkies]

If the cowboys were ousted and all of us & all works HAD to comply with the "regs" "in full" then there would be no issue as everyone would be facing the same cost changes to their overheads, thus they would all be looking to cover the same overheads and the clients would not be able to find any "back door" providers.

If the cowboys were ousted !! There wouldn't be any scheme providers. lol

With all thats going on. Life is getting easier for the Cowboys to make a fast buck.
They don't play by the rules or even worry about it.
There free to undercut and bodge to there hearts content.
And when they have made a pretty packet. They vanish into the night, and move on elsewhere.
Its the Qualified, hardworking sparks that have to work out the wood from the trees, and try and make a living against bodgers who can all to easily undercut them.
Thanks for all your help scheme providers, I don't know how we would survive without you. (Or is that the other way around ???)

 

[dodge26]

For whom may be intrested, having carried out out first EICR last night, there were a number of questions which I was looking forward to asking the NICEIC this morning, which having spoke to them left me feeling as if I couldn't make this up. For those who do know the EICR is now 11 pages long, having asked questions regarding page 9 he told me that he has only got pages 1 - 6 which as we know is the old one. So he was unable to answer my question, and more importantly (if anyone knows any different to this) the NICEIC have altered the change over date to the 1st June, which **** up and breweries spring to mind

 

[oldtimer]

For whom may be intrested, having carried out out first EICR last night, there were a number of questions which I was looking forward to asking the NICEIC this morning, which having spoke to them left me feeling as if I couldn't make this up. For those who do know the EICR is now 11 pages long, having asked questions regarding page 9 he told me that he has only got pages 1 - 6 which as we know is the old one. So he was unable to answer my question, and more importantly (if anyone knows any different to this) the NICEIC have altered the change over date to the 1st June, which **** up and breweries spring to mind

I wonder if these registration companies can be charged with negligence or under the trades description act Deary Dear could you imagine going to a job and telling the customer could you hold on for a moment as I am getting a new tester because under the law I am required to but the only thing is I am not sure if or when I get one so the next time one of these clowns want to haul you over the coals you can say stop EICR to you mate

 

[dodge26]

In fact in response off how will I get the answer to my questions I was informed he will call me back or better still if you buy GN3 6th Edition that will tell you, which if you look online isn't available till April...

 

[Jay Sparks]

For whom may be intrested, having carried out out first EICR last night, there were a number of questions which I was looking forward to asking the NICEIC this morning, which having spoke to them left me feeling as if I couldn't make this up. For those who do know the EICR is now 11 pages long, having asked questions regarding page 9 he told me that he has only got pages 1 - 6 which as we know is the old one. So he was unable to answer my question, and more importantly (if anyone knows any different to this) the NICEIC have altered the change over date to the 1st June, which **** up and breweries spring to mind

Am I missing something??? I have just downloaded the new EICR from the Elecsa website and it is only 6 pages long!!
Whats the score?? Is the one Ive downloaded an old one? Is there a new EICR already that has 11 pages?
My brain hurts:banghead:.

Cheers

Jay