Plant Pot Brigade!

[andrew692003]

Does anyone want to join?

As I've stated before I have never used these between floors or in any new builds so don't get out the sniper rifles straight away!

The only time I have used clay pots has been in lofts where access isn't a problem and usually in older dwelling houses. Now, the last time I did this was a good couple of years ago not that that matters as I can't see a problem with it.

When fitting the pots I always make sure that the insulation is clear of the hole and all dust etc has been cleaned away then I fit the pot with the transformer outside lying on top of the insulation. I always push the insulation up against the pot which makes it very steady.

At the end of the day all you are trying to achieve is to stop debris falling on the lamp and letting the heat dissipitate to possibly stop causing fire so, does it matter whether you use a firehood, plasterboard box or a bloody clay plant pot?

Firehoods can be expensive and a PIA to fit, Plasterboard boxes take time to build and even the cheapest Firerated fittings can still up the cost considerabaly.

Cheers

 

[martysparky]

Please read my post carefully, I said, Plantpots should b e used only for giving minimum clearance from insulation with fire rated fittings and nothing else.

Anyone daft enough to use pots with fittings that are not fire rated want their heads read, besides who the hell fits non-fire rated fittings these days?

Any debris that you are describing heavy enough and falling with enough force to smash a plant pot is going to break most things you place over a light.

hey, I did read it carefully, it said- 'fire hoods are placed on downlights that are NOT fire rated to prevent the spread of fire, the Plant Pot is used to give the Minimum clearance Manufacturers state'.

Accidents happen and safetry is no accident!

offical member!

That plastic one would give clearance if thats all its used for.lol

 

[pennywise]

What brand of pot would you suggest.

 

[roukel01]

Accidents happen and safetry is no accident!

The risk would be minimal, I'm affraid I don't buy your argument, and I still think a pot is a sufficient barrier to prevent anything from comprimising a fitting. Oh and so did my assesor last year.

 

[GaryM]

Oh and so did my assesor last year.

They don't always get it right. We had one who wanted an RSJ bonded which was been installed for support in a domestic. He saw the light when I asked him how on earth could it be extraneous!

 

[martysparky]

The risk would be minimal, I'm affraid I don't buy your argument, and I still think a pot is a sufficient barrier to prevent anything from comprimising a fitting. Oh and so did my assesor last year.

well, if thats true about the assessor, well done for it. It still defies the regs though and I still wouldn't do it.
but I don't know as much about that as you as I've never done it and would only follow the regs.

Was it done in a domestic?

good luck.

Regards.

 

[roukel01]

well, if thats true about the assessor, well done for it. It still defies the regs though and I still wouldn't do it.
but I don't know as much about that as you as I've never done it and would only follow the regs.

Was it done in a domestic?

good luck.

Regards.

I'm still unsure why it doesn't follow the regs when you are only using it as a barrier. The regs usually state that the manufacturers instructions are folowed when installing their equipment, if you are using fire rated lights, stopping the spread of fire is achieved through the fitting and you're not relying on anything else you put over the fitting. A plant pot is still tough enough to withstand any impact that can reasonably be expected to fall on it. the fire hoods and caps I've ever seen are quite flimsy and the two for a £5 pots I've used are far tougher!

 

[Smugley]

Can't wait for downlights to go out of fashion.

 

[roukel01]

Can't wait for downlights to go out of fashion.

Same here mate, I try not to fit them. Don't mind them in Kitchens but you get a load of shadows! Bathrooms are ok too I suppose. I look after a few rental properties where they are in every room. Horrible.

 

[Notsosmart]

Dare I say it?.... I can't resist:
Hot debate, but don't get so fired up!

I will only add that within a domestic property the fire compartment is deemed as;

"Walls that separate semi-detached houses or terraced houses are constructed as fire compartment walls and the houses are considered as separate buildings"
​

The area within the whole of the house is the compartment, with no seperate fire compartments between floors ~ Only flats have seperate compartments between floors.

With regards to a downlight within a kitchen ceiling;

"These results were, perhaps, surprising in that they confirmed that downlighters, even without being boxed in and with no fire hoods, in plasterboard ceilings have little significant effect on fire resistance ratings up to 30 minutes. It must be inferred from these tests therefore, that, at least with plasterboard ceilings with
conventional rectangular joists, it is not necessary to ‘box in’ luminaries or to use fire hoods for the purpose of restoring the fire resistance capability of ceilings which are not of fire compartment construction."​

 

[martysparky]

Dare I say it?.... I can't resist:
Hot debate, but don't get so fired up!

I will only add that within a domestic property the fire compartment is deemed as;

"Walls that separate semi-detached houses or terraced houses are constructed as fire compartment walls and the houses are considered as separate buildings"
​

The area within the whole of the house is the compartment, with no seperate fire compartments between floors ~ Only flats have seperate compartments between floors.

With regards to a downlight within a kitchen ceiling;

"These results were, perhaps, surprising in that they confirmed that downlighters, even without being boxed in and with no fire hoods, in plasterboard ceilings have little significant effect on fire resistance ratings up to 30 minutes. It must be inferred from these tests therefore, that, at least with plasterboard ceilings with
conventional rectangular joists, it is not necessary to ‘box in’ luminaries or to use fire hoods for the purpose of restoring the fire resistance capability of ceilings which are not of fire compartment construction."​

Brilliant! loving that. especially the 'Don't get so fired up' bit.

To keep the cost a little lower to get more work lets lower our standards.

I guess because we can lets throw caution to the wind and let the wind fuel the fire and let the house burn more quickly.

Come on any fool can recognize that a piece of timber will catch fire more quickly if it is not protected by a barrier. we might as well not have internal walls and then we could see and smell the fire more quickly. ( less timber to protect too)

You only got to think in the event of a possible fire would I prefer to be asleep in a compartment that has a good level of fire protection or would you prefer when the alarm wakes you up to be facing bare flames in-hailing the smoke.

Prob is we all take houses for granted and feel safe in them.

My, 1 level cottage is open plan by the way. Bedroom separated by stone wall! SAFE

I guess then in that case, it is up to the installer to choose there own way of looking at things and standard of workmanship.

I endeavor to make safety a priority because safety is no accident

whoops, ah, my leg, bang!

 

[Notsosmart]

Ouch..well i guess that told me,
I thought I was just clarifying a few points but I suppose I should just creep back under the dark damp place I crawled out from....
Maybe a plant pot!

 

[pennywise]

These could double up as good planters I suppose


Buy Aurora AU-DIG340 GALVANISED STEEL DOWNLIGHT INSULATION GUARD LIGHTING ACCESSORY Kent Lighting

 

[Notsosmart]

Your just not taking this seriously

 

[andrew692003]

No, Notsosmart you posted good points too!

There's nothing wrong with my standard of work, when a customer wants downlighters in a roof space thats for him to decide not me, the regs don't state you have to use firerated or hoods in certain situations as Notsosmart has pointed out. If I decide that a Clay pot is a sufficient barrier to stop debris hitting the lamp I will use it. If the floor below is burning away nicely do you really think that by the time the fire has spread to the upper level the loft is really going to be worth saving?

A clay pot is for stopping debris not to stop a fire!

Cheers

These could double up as good planters I suppose


Buy Aurora AU-DIG340 GALVANISED STEEL DOWNLIGHT INSULATION GUARD LIGHTING ACCESSORY Kent Lighting

Does the same job as a Clay pot but 8 times the price! Good post tho. I feel the tide could be turning my way on this one.

Cheers

 

[martysparky]

Ouch..well i guess that told me,
I thought I was just clarifying a few points but I suppose I should just creep back under the dark damp place I crawled out from....
Maybe a plant pot!

Hey, not at all. good points.

My points not aimed directly at you or anyone really.

just my thoughts.

Entertaining and interesting really

No, Notsosmart you posted good points too!

There's nothing wrong with my standard of work, when a customer wants downlighters in a roof space thats for him to decide not me, the regs don't state you have to use firerated or hoods in certain situations as Notsosmart has pointed out. If I decide that a Clay pot is a sufficient barrier to stop debris hitting the lamp I will use it. If the floor below is burning away nicely do you really think that by the time the fire has spread to the upper level the loft is really going to be worth saving?

A clay pot is for stopping debris not to stop a fire!

Cheers



Does the same job as a Clay pot but 8 times the price! Good post tho. I feel the tide could be turning my way on this one.

Cheers

What debris are you classifying to be reasonably expected? What if lets say a cot or a bike or a old TV falls on the clay pot.....Hmmm....It smashes... maybe...probably...
Are these thing reasonably expected to be stored in a loft or will you tell the home owner, your customer, different.

At least the metal or plasterboard ones will flatten to a point and still stay in tact to a degree too and still provide protection a clay pot on the other hand will shatter in to bits.

When the customer rings you up and said your work has broken because something fell on it, what are you going to say...well you chose to have downlighters not me...he/she replies... you installed them and the silly pots...Didn't you think of that...itn't electrical work regulated...well those clay pot are not electrical...well your an electrician and you put them there....blah...blahhh.blahhhhh!!! ya..my...and the ...leg off...

What if they don't even notice the pot is in bits under or masked by the insulation. what if the pot damages the cable when broken.. then you would have caused the fire because you put them there...

Whoops, smash, burn away. Safety is no Accident!

Its not about saving the loft its about saving lives

I.e. escape time...................

Do all your clay pots ring? You know like the antique guys do the ring test...
God knows how many times I've bought clay pots for the garden and they have broke just from picking them up or filling them.