poor workmanship

[Pete999]

Hi everyone,

I have viewed a job recently where the customer was concerned about the quality of the electrical work. It was a complete rewire and new extension. In investigating the job I found a lot of junction boxes throughout with no identification to line or neutral, I found no earth bond but property is supplied by plastic and is plastic near enough throughout. An electrical installtion certificate has been issued by the company responsible. Would loke to know if anyone has come across this situation or what others would do about it, cheers

Hardly life threatening, but if the customer is concerned about the standard of workmanship, the get him to contact the original installer's scheme, if he is in one, they might do something about it, I say might with tongue in cheek

 

[Guest77]

Hi everyone,

I have viewed a job recently where the customer was concerned about the quality of the electrical work. It was a complete rewire and new extension. In investigating the job I found a lot of junction boxes throughout with no identification to line or neutral, I found no earth bond but property is supplied by plastic and is plastic near enough throughout. An electrical installtion certificate has been issued by the company responsible. Would loke to know if anyone has come across this situation or what others would do about it, cheers

So there was no identification in JBs and due to plastic pipes throughout the property and no Main Equipotential Bonding Conductor has been identified as installed and
what would I do?

Okay= I would tell the customer I normally charge 200 quid plus VAT @20% to carry out a full EICR of the Electrical installation and I would promise them I would issue a full report if anything dangerous was found as well as the test certificate, if however they have the original EIC from the company who recently rewired the premises I could more than likely save them some money if the readings on the EIC started to correspond with my new readings.

Now if after 4 circuits they matched or nearly matched I would probably tell them although BS7671 "may" have been ignored regarding some parts of the installation, it was in fact safe and therefore there was nothing to concern yourself with. To finish I would suggest to them if they wanted further peace of mind they could phone the original installers and ask them to remedy anything highlighted in my EICR.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

You've mentioned that the home owner was 'concerned' about the quality of the work Alan, then you have mentioned no sleeving on certain conductors to identify them and also no Main bonding. Are these the 2 concerns that the homeowner has raised?

If these are the only 2 concerns then you just need to test any metal work that you are concerned about to see if it is extraneous, and then act accordingly depending on the results. As for the missing sleeving, like the others have said, it's very sloppy but I dont think many homeowners would want to pay you £25p/hr checking every switch to see if it needs some sleeving.

If these are just 2 amongst many other concerns then you could either advise the homeowner to contact whomever carried out the work to answer their concerns and perhaps start a complaint (every registered electrician will have a complaints procedure). Or, if the homeowner does not want to contact them (I'm assuming they dont for some reason, hence contacting you), you advise them to have an EICR carried out.

Thats what I would do anyway.

I'd be interested to hear what the outcome is, it's always nice to have an update..

 

[trev]

Steve, come on. Advising a full EICR is just making work for the sake of it. I'd do a couple of random tests to see if the results on the EIC are true or not then talk to the home owner about what I found then take it from there.
If the sample tests show major discrepancies then it's time for the original electrician to come back and explain himself.

 

[urbanmonkey]

I did say something similar a couple of pages back. I firmly believe that with the original EIC to hand, a couple of hours poking about and testing will soon let you know if something is afoot. Personally I think it just sounds like someone didn't have any sleeving with them, granted if they were lazy there could be other issues, still, the bonding is not an issue at all unless you usually run around tagging up plastic pipework for the sake of it. Anything more than an initial couple of hours work to find out where the land lies is pushing it. Advising a full EICR over a couple of jb's without sleeving is nothing more than blatant money making, no wonder joe public always think they are getting ripped off!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Steve, come on. Advising a full EICR is just making work for the sake of it. I'd do a couple of random tests to see if the results on the EIC are true or not then talk to the home owner about what I found then take it from there.
If the sample tests show major discrepancies then it's time for the original electrician to come back and explain himself.

Thats fair enough Trev. I did mean the EICR 'if' it wasn't just those 2 concerns 'and' there were many other concerns, 'and' then only after the homeowner has called the previous electrician. But perhaps you're right, even then if a few tests show all is matching the EIC results then call it a day... depends a bit on what the other concerns may be?

 

[Adam W]

If you were doing the rewire would you have bonded the plastic pipework?

 

[cprfenom]

I agree with an EICR being overkill, but I am interested in what the customer thought was bad workmanship. I am not sure any customer of mine would be looking in junction boxes and looking for sleeving etc.

Just offer to spend an hour doing a sample test against the original EIC and see if it comes close.

 

[trev]

If you were doing the rewire would you have bonded the plastic pipework?

Absolutely.....Water MUST be bonded lol

 

[andyelectric]

I agree with an EICR being overkill, but I am interested in what the customer thought was bad workmanship. I am not sure any customer of mine would be looking in junction boxes and looking for sleeving etc.

Just offer to spend an hour doing a sample test against the original EIC and see if it comes close.

I must admit I was also wondering about the customers initial concerns. Hopefully the op will be back to explain. Seems a bit strange that op is taking time to take apart sockets instead of comparing a couple of readings to EIC which wouldn't take much difference timewise, but depends what customer said. Then again I am a mere Electrical Trainee.

 

[ipf]

Absolutely.....Water MUST be bonded lol

No need to strip the cable for connection, though.......could have used some g/y sleeving and tied it on, I suppose but, then again, seems he didn't have any :thinking:

 

[Knobhead]

Hi everyone,

I have viewed a job recently where the customer was concerned about the quality of the electrical work. It was a complete rewire and new extension. In investigating the job I found a lot of junction boxes throughout with no identification to line or neutral, I found no earth bond but property is supplied by plastic and is plastic near enough throughout. An electrical installtion certificate has been issued by the company responsible. Would loke to know if anyone has come across this situation or what others would do about it, cheers

Nothing.

I think I will suggest a full test and inspect through each circuit and rectify any errors as they arrise.

Now we get to the crux of the thread. Screwing money out of the customer.

 

[Plonker 3]

Alan why have you gotten involved in this?

 

[Guest55]

i've read this twice and still confused.com

so a registered contractor has completed a rewire and supplied certification - so far so good.

they havent bonded pipes that are entirely plastic - good , it shows a bit of applied thought.

they have used the grey in 3core cable for neutral - well thats how ive been doing it since the advent of the new wiring colours in 2007.


all that appears amiss is maybe some coloured tape markings in a few j.b.'s that the customer will never see anyway ?

big deal , hardly grounds for pulling a new installation apart is it.

anyone else get the feeling that the whole story isnt being provided here ?

 

[shanky887614]

i've read this twice and still confused.com

so a registered contractor has completed a rewire and supplied certification - so far so good.

they havent bonded pipes that are entirely plastic - good , it shows a bit of applied thought.

they have used the grey in 3core cable for neutral - well thats how ive been doing it since the advent of the new wiring colours in 2007.


all that appears amiss is maybe some coloured tape markings in a few j.b.'s that the customer will never see anyway ?

big deal , hardly grounds for pulling a new installation apart is it.

anyone else get the feeling that the whole story isnt being provided here ?

your not supposed to use black as N anymore so that diy'ers dont connect phase to N


unless its re-using old wiring

 

[Guest55]

your not supposed to use black as N anymore so that diy'ers dont connect phase to N


unless its re-using old wiring

i dont use black for N in new wiring so please refrain from sullying my good post by association with the amatuers.

;-)

 

[trev]

anyone else get the feeling that the whole story isnt being provided here ?

I get the feeling that the OP is trying to justify work which is totally unnecessary, perhaps he's thinking that he'd get back up for his get rich quick scheme which he could show to this unfortunate customer in the hope that the thread would convince them to buy into his nonsense. We could all be totally wrong as you say, maybe there is more to the story.

 

[Plonker 3]

your not supposed to use black as N anymore so that diy'ers dont connect phase to N


unless its re-using old wiring

And why not?

 

[Plonker 3]

i've read this twice and still confused.com

so a registered contractor has completed a rewire and supplied certification - so far so good.

they havent bonded pipes that are entirely plastic - good , it shows a bit of applied thought.

they have used the grey in 3core cable for neutral - well thats how ive been doing it since the advent of the new wiring colours in 2007.


all that appears amiss is maybe some coloured tape markings in a few j.b.'s that the customer will never see anyway ?

big deal , hardly grounds for pulling a new installation apart is it.

anyone else get the feeling that the whole story isnt being provided here ?

I want to know why this other "spark" has got involved?

 

[ian.settle1]

Must be the new thing they are getting taught now, if you don't know what your doing just recommend a EICR not the first time this has been posted

 

[davesparks]

your not supposed to use black as N anymore so that diy'ers dont connect phase to N


unless its re-using old wiring

Says who? Where does this 'supposed to' come from?
You can use whatever colour you like as long as it is correctly marked by either colour or alphanumeric marking at each termination.

There is however a strong convention to use the same cores of a three core as were used prior to the change and it is best practice to follow this convention.

 

[telectrix]

Says who? Where does this 'supposed to' come from?
You can use whatever colour you like as long as it is correctly marked by either colour or alphanumeric marking at each termination.

There is however a strong convention to use the same cores of a three core as were used prior to the change and it is best practice to follow this convention.

how? they all guesswork in the dark to anyone with normal eyesight.

 

[Guest55]

Says who? Where does this 'supposed to' come from?
You can use whatever colour you like as long as it is correctly marked by either colour or alphanumeric marking at each termination.
.

Do you always jump into threads shouting your mouth off , looking for someone to disagree with ?

you seem to do it alot and its beginning to grate.

shankys been here years so show a bit of effing respect and wind your neck in.

 

[davesparks]

Do you always jump into threads shouting your mouth off , looking for someone to disagree with ?

you seem to do it alot and its beginning to grate.

shankys been here years so show a bit of effing respect and wind your neck in.

Not always, but if incorrect comments are made I will say something about it.

I'll show respect to those people who have earned or deserve it, and people like you I will continue to show contempt for.

 

[davesparks]

how? they all guesswork in the dark to anyone with normal eyesight.

Buy a torch