Problem customer

[eagleeye]

Hi guys I recently posted a message on here regarding a problem I have. Basically i fitted a new kitchen for them and new electrical circuits. RCD board and all. I noticed that the gas and water had no earth connection on them so told the lady and she didnt want me to do it as i would charge her because it wasnt part of my estimate. Also when i put in the new ringmain 2 sockets on the downstairs stopped working. The house needs a rewire as the wiring is in a right mess as are the old fuse boards and this problem would have been sorted out then. She was refusing to pay me for some other extra work that i did so i didnt give her a certificate until she sorted it out. She has now got in touch with the NICEIC who im registered with and they have sent me a letter about it. they want a response by 11th Feb. What do you people think about this?



Regards
Paul

 

[Spudnik]

I would like to point out that this forum is for EVERYONE, electrician or not.

If some asks for some advice, if anyone feels that you are unable to help, for whatever reasons, then do not post.

Part P is, and at the moment always will be flawed, as with many other "schemes".

I would rather someone ask for help, than just guess or assume what they have done is correct.

The OP has overlooked a serious part of an installation, but that does not give ANYONE the right to abuse them, directly or indirectly.

We can post all day about fast track courses etc etc and the downfalls of them, but, what we all have to remember is there are very few apprenticeships available for people to be taught hands on, to back up the theory.

We were all learning once.

 

[uksel]

on the note of testing beforehand i think people may be getting that aspect wrong

yes - only quote for the CU change, under the premise that there will be no non-comliance issues or fault finding involved.

if the quote is accepted for the CU change, then job number one is to test the circuits before changing the board. get all your r1+r2's, insulation resistances, check your ring circuits etc etc

if all of the results are fine, carry on with changing the CU - if you have any show stopper issues then you can make the client aware of the problem before you start the changeover.

as far as the client is concerned, once you have swopped the board over he wants his electric back on, it was working fine before and it should be working fine now in their eyes.

that is covering your arse, you'd also need to agree to the cost of a full period inspection if he doesnt want you to complete the work if you find any faults.

ie. consumer unit change = £350 estimated quote

if i turn up, do a periodic, find something wrong which needs remedial work and you don't want to pay for it, then the work stops and you owe me = £80 for the my time and the periodic with cert.

if everything checks out ok on the period, change the CU, charge the customer £350 smackeroonies and provide him with his laminated framed certificate of compliance

I would like to point out that this forum is for EVERYONE, electrician or not.

If some asks for some advice, if anyone feels that you are unable to help, for whatever reasons, then do not post.

Part P is, and at the moment always will be flawed, as with many other "schemes".

I would rather someone ask for help, than just guess or assume what they have done is correct.

The OP has overlooked a serious part of an installation, but that does not give ANYONE the right to abuse them, directly or indirectly.

We can post all day about fast track courses etc etc and the downfalls of them, but, what we all have to remember is there are very few apprenticeships available for people to be taught hands on, to back up the theory.

We were all learning once.

our opinion was asked - it was given

is the forum policy to tell people what they want to hear??

because the replies dont sit well with the OP should we withold our opinions? the OP is apparently NOT an electrician DOING electrical work (BADLY) - hopefully he can take something valuable away from this experience and our opinions may be taken on board. i wouldn't class these posts as abuse. (or the ones i remeber reading at least)

 

[bugsy]

I was under the impression he was working for you , anyway this string could go on forever , I think you have gone through a very steep leaning curve, I think you'll proberly get a bo***cking from the nic amd they will ask you rectify the faults and issue the certs.
Just remember it can take a long time to get a good reputation and just one bad job to get a bad one!

 

[flukey]

I would like to point out that this forum is for EVERYONE, electrician or not.

If some asks for some advice, if anyone feels that you are unable to help, for whatever reasons, then do not post.

Part P is, and at the moment always will be flawed, as with many other "schemes".

I would rather someone ask for help, than just guess or assume what they have done is correct.

The OP has overlooked a serious part of an installation, but that does not give ANYONE the right to abuse them, directly or indirectly.

We can post all day about fast track courses etc etc and the downfalls of them, but, what we all have to remember is there are very few apprenticeships available for people to be taught hands on, to back up the theory.

We were all learning once.

too true jason, but the op IS a registered competent person that is clearly not competent asking questions that are pretty damn obvious to a competent person.

i think had he been learning then the answers he received would have taken this into account and i for one would have spared him a little more time with my answer

 

[baldsparkies]

I would like to point out that this forum is for EVERYONE, electrician or not.

If some asks for some advice, if anyone feels that you are unable to help, for whatever reasons, then do not post.

Part P is, and at the moment always will be flawed, as with many other "schemes".

I would rather someone ask for help, than just guess or assume what they have done is correct.

The OP has overlooked a serious part of an installation, but that does not give ANYONE the right to abuse them, directly or indirectly.

We can post all day about fast track courses etc etc and the downfalls of them, but, what we all have to remember is there are very few apprenticeships available for people to be taught hands on, to back up the theory.

We were all learning once.

Agree with everything you said Jason.
Except the (We were all learning once bit)
In this trade we are always learning doesn't matter how long we have been doing the job,and I know you will know exactly what I mean. Personally I sympathise with the OP, regardless of how he got there he is on a sticky wicket. He needs to look at the situation objectively and try to see it from the customers view point. Its partly his fault, and partly a lack of communication. The governing body was quick enough to take his money, and now he needs there advice and support. Lets hope he gets it.
Damned if you do. Damned if you dont. Best option cut your losses. sort the bonding.learn by your mistake. and never be to proud to ask for advice. Oh yes and when done, get those certs sorted pronto.

 

[andyb]

I would like to point out that this forum is for EVERYONE, electrician or not.

If some asks for some advice, if anyone feels that you are unable to help, for whatever reasons, then do not post.

Part P is, and at the moment always will be flawed, as with many other "schemes".

I would rather someone ask for help, than just guess or assume what they have done is correct.

The OP has overlooked a serious part of an installation, but that does not give ANYONE the right to abuse them, directly or indirectly.

We can post all day about fast track courses etc etc and the downfalls of them, but, what we all have to remember is there are very few apprenticeships available for people to be taught hands on, to back up the theory.

We were all learning once.

wattsup & myself are having a healthy debate, I don't recognise anything in our posts that can construed as abuse.

 

[lloyd1980]

there seems to be a lot of stress on this thread
hommmmmmmmmmmmmmm zen!!!!!
light a joss stick or something

 

[bugsy]

EAGLEEY is currently sitting under the kitchen table head in hands wondering what on earth he's unleashed, he will proberbly crawl out tommorow morning a quivering wreck with an alergic reaction to his pc

 

[uksel]

Agree with everything you said Jason.
Accept the (We were all learning once bit)
In this trade we are always learning doesn't matter how long we have been doing the job,and I know you will know exactly what I mean. Personally I sympathise with the OP, regardless of how he got there he is on a sticky wicket. He needs to look at the situation objectively and try to see it from the customers view point. Its partly his fault, and partly a lack of communication. The governing body was quick enough to take his money, and now he needs there advice and support. Lets hope he gets it.
Damned if you do. Damned if you dont. Best option cut your losses. sort the bonding.learn by your mistake. and never be to proud to ask for advice.

I disagree with you if i'm honest! - the governing body are quite enough to take his money to cover him for work he is competent to do.

you can't expect people to go from one major learning curve to the next, acting unprofessionaly and taking on work where they have no clue of the implications of their errors

that is the whole point of training. Part P was (IMO) supposed to be about awareness, not a route to avoid any reasonable standards of training. but no-one seems to be doing anything about it

I know my local college has stopped doing the part p courses because of instances like this mentioned, it is a system that has been implemented but it not working to the desired effect, it IS having an ADVERSE effect on the industry

 

[pushrod]

Having read the whole thread i find it interesting that some people seem to assume that you can't have an experienced kitchen fitter who is also a fully qualified and time served electrician or vice versa.
I am not saying anything about the OP in this case.

 

[bugsy]

No one is saying you cannot be qualified in both feilds , it's the degree of qualification thats the issue here

 

[baldsparkies]

I disagree with you if i'm honest! - the governing body are quite enough to take his money to cover him for work he is competent to do.

you can't expect people to go from one major learning curve to the next, acting unprofessionaly and taking on work where they have no clue of the implications of their errors

that is the whole point of training. Part P was (IMO) supposed to be about awareness, not a route to avoid any reasonable standards of training. but no-one seems to be doing anything about it

I know my local college has stopped doing the part p courses because of instances like this mentioned, it is a system that has been implemented but it not working to the desired effect, it IS having an ADVERSE effect on the industry

We are coming from the same direction. My point is Part P, and becoming a member of a registered body are going hand in hand to fast track people into signing off there own work when in many cases they simply dont have enough background knowledge. Yes its about individual good electrical practice, yes its about good training and awareness and yes its about bringing back timed served apprentiships.
It just seems to me that everywhere you look everyone is becoming an electrician as a second trade. Thats not how I remember things. sorry but Part P is a net with wopping big holes. I love this sight though. well done mods

 

[pushrod]

No one is saying you cannot be qualified in both feilds , it's the degree of qualification thats the issue here

As i said i wasn't talking about the issue here.
Just the underlying feel that you get from reading this thread, from some posters, that a person could not be be highly experienced and extremely competent in both areas.
I fully accept that there are many who are not fully competent in one area, let alone two.

 

[uksel]

Part P, and becoming a member of a registered body are going hand in hand to fast track people into signing off there own work when in many cases they simply dont have enough background knowledge. Yes its about individual good electrical practice, yes its about good training and awareness and yes its about bringing back timed served apprentiships.
It just seems to me that everywhere you look everyone is becoming an electrician as a second trade. Thats not how I remember things. sorry but Part P is a net with wopping big holes. I love this sight though. well done mods

i couldn't agree more

 

[Aok1]

My main trade is is not electrical it is mainly CCTV and AV but i decided to do a PART P and 17th edition course to benefit myself and to assist in the work that i do. I did have some electrical knowledge before doing the course but i would nothing extensive.

I sat a 5 day course with 9 other people their trades were mainly plumbers and kitchen fitters. To be honest 8 of them were not interested and all said we are here because we are being paid to be and took very little interest, but all of them said am i not doing all this testing stuff etc it's a waste of time.

The other guy was like myself interested to learn and do things properly, come the end of the week a multiple choice and practical exam was given which everyone sat and passed which i thought was wrong as i seen 3 guys mess up the safe isolation procedure.

At the end of the week we got offered to buy our own copy of the 17th regs which 2 of us bought, everyone elses attitude was we dont need that ****e and did not even bother to take there on site guide with them.

The whole course was a good course for people WANTING to learn but it is flawed by a poor exam, you will pass and this should be changed .

To me part p seems to be along the same lines as some of schemes in the security and TV aerial industries they are a good idea if they are policed properly but unfortanately there are holes in the net.

5 days is not enough for some people to become fully compitent to rewire a house or carry out work in special locations in my opinion.

I think alot also depends on the actual person carrying out the work whether they just want the money or want to so a proper job to a good standard. I know a couple of other trade people that carry out electrical work and there work is spot on.

I am not as experienced as most of the guys on here but i always do my best to check everything i do is done to the regs and if i am not sure i will ask someone that does whether on this forum or a family member who are sparks.

Some people are not interested in doing a job properly, some are to proud to ask. I find it easier to ask even if it is something simple or you know that you have made a cock up, better to get it sorted than get labeled a cowboy or leave something dangerous.

I know a couple of sparks who say people should stick to there own trade which i think is wrong, the amount of times i go to site and a spark has wired something up wrong or just got it totally wrong. I wont start ranting i would rather sort the problem out so it is right for next time and they also have learned not to do the same again.