Rewire

[rjwbrown]

After a bit of advice/clarification re 18[SUP]th[/SUP] edition of the regulation.
Firstly a bit of background, having a lot of work done on a 70's bungalow for my mother in law, altering the layout, lounge/dinner to a kitchen/dinner with separate lounge, new bath room, new external oil boiler and included a complete rewire.
There have been a few points raised by the electrician of which I found a bit strange.
He wanted to move the meter and I said no as it is fine where it is and I did not want to fall foul of any of the supply company regulations.
I wanted one double pole switch for the oven (Total connected load 3.68KW) and the hob (Total connected load 2.99KW) and he wanted two, both are well within 2 meters of the switch position I had in mind. The reasoning here is glass splash backs and the less holes the better a each hole adds to the cost.

Earth bonding to the water main he wanted the stop cock under the kitchen sink as he said “that’s where they go” and I have opted for a remote (Surestop) one which is plastic and the incoming pipe is plastic, and only picks up copper under the bathroom floor. The reason for picking a remote one is that in the event of a leak an elderly person would have problems with the older brass tap never mind getting to it. Does this earth connection need to be assessable? It is going to be under the floor in an area that is not readily accessible as it will be tiled.
The new main CU is having all RCBOs fitted so I’m thinking that any supplementary bonding is only precautionary rather than a requirement.

Garage supply in armored cable not a problem there and I was going to use a plastic garage CU but he said he would have a problem with the termination but I thought what’s wrong with a metal box along side the CU for the termination of the armored cable.

Any comments welcome good or bad and have I missed anything I need to be aware of.

Rob

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Glenn we are not here for what this guy wants, well it never used to be like that m8, he had 5/6 issues , he should take them up with the spark not us

 

[Engineer54]

Thank you all for your comments, where to start with a reply?

The CU with RCBOs was my idea not his he wanted to fit a split CU with a RCD but you lose 2 ways when you spit the CU and space is a problem OK for 12 way, 16 way just and anything larger would require a change to the meter cupboard.

And a very good choice too, don't let anyone here convince you otherwise. It is by far, a superior arrangement compared with the compromise split CU

Bonding the water pipe is a problem area as I can not have the join plastic to metal in the kichen so stop cock under the kitchen sink is out.
Reading the regulations

Where practicable the connection to the gas, water, oil, etc., service should be
within 600 mm of the service meter, or at the point of entry to the building if
the service meter is external and must be on the consumer's side before any
branch pipework and after any insulating section in the service.

There must be some lattitude here other wise why say "practicable" and "should" does not mean has to be or am I reading this incorrectly.

There is, but it should in essence conform with the points made above. It's basically to cover any plastic pipework being subsequently installed...

I could understand there being issues if compession joints or screw threaded joints are used on metal pipe work as this could introduce a path of higher resistance but soldered copper pipe work should not present such issues as it should be a good path with very little electrical resistance. That does assume they joints are soldered correctly but if they were not they would leak.

You do not need to bond copper/metal pipework that is being supplied from a plastic incomer. The idea is to bond metal pipework that is bringing into the property, an extraneous earth path. So any copper pipework after an incoming plastic pipe, would be isolated and not require bonding. This can be proved by testing ...over 23k ohms and it doesn't need bonding...
In fact if over 23k ohms it ''Shouldn't'' be bonded, ...as doing so, can actually introduce a potential during a fault condition.

It may be possible to have the bond in the bathroom as the basin is on a cabinet and all the taps are mains fed including the hot water. Will need to look at distance from join to cabinet but it will not be anywhere close to the plastic stop cock just close to where it goes from plastic to metal.

As above comments...

May be I should have done all the water pipes incuding the heating in plastic then the problem would not arise

Will be using metal CU's as that is not a problem or going to cost an arm and a leg and should make a tidier job.


Metal or plastic, the choice is yours..

As for leaving the electrician alone to make decisions on what goes where, not a chance as I know where the sockets, switches need to go, that does assume the positions meet the current regulations or there is another reason for them to be postioned else where.

I have good understanding of electrics although not quailfied as such and had I been younger would have done the work myself and just had it signed off at the end.

Officially your not allowed to actually do that anymore and you would probably have a job trying to find someone to sign it off for you!! lol!! Now you would have had to go through the LABC, and that can be costly.


BTW: I am not looking over his shoulder as the job is 160miles away so can only get on site about once a week and just because someone is quailified does not mean they can not make a mistake, we all do but try our best not to.

***********

 

[rjwbrown]

Going to have to say this...

Threads like this make my blood boil, we are not "Sparkwatch", yes we can answer queries from homeowners ect but we are not here to cast judgment on a fellow sparks work via a third party, especially one who talks like he has had his head in BS7671.

Not impressed

I'm not asking anyone to be a "Sparkwatch" and I'm not trying to cast any judgement on anyone or upset anyone, as you do not know the person doing the work then how can you say "one who talks like he has had his head in BS7671".

All I'm trying to do is ensure the job is done correctly and within the current regulations how else do you check work being carried out is done correctly. Also it appears the regulations are a little ambiguous or at least not as clear as they could be and leave some of it open to interpretation rather than a cast in stone rule. As technology and materials move forward things change and as some of the stuff available now was not around or at least not in common usage when the regs were put together.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

I was talking about your head in BS7671 not your Electricians, leave the work to the guy who is trained , accept his judgment and methods , that's what your paying for

 

[ipf]

I'm not asking anyone to be a "Sparkwatch" and I'm not trying to cast any judgement on anyone or upset anyone, as you do not know the person doing the work then how can you say "one who talks like he has had his head in BS7671".

All I'm trying to do is ensure the job is done correctly and within the current regulations how else do you check work being carried out is done correctly. Also it appears the regulations are a little ambiguous or at least not as clear as they could be and leave some of it open to interpretation rather than a cast in stone rule. As technology and materials move forward things change and as some of the stuff available now was not around or at least not in common usage when the regs were put together.

Fair enough and thumbs up for using your head on this.
I'm glad everyone having electrical work done isn't doing the same though. See what info and help you could get from a solicitor's forum.

 

[danf1966]

Going to have to say this...

Threads like this make my blood boil, we are not "Sparkwatch", yes we can answer queries from homeowners ect but we are not here to cast judgment on a fellow sparks work via a third party, especially one who talks like he has had his head in BS7671.

Not impressed

spot on Llan .

 

[Octopus]

My money is on the fact that the OP is actually the sparky.

 

[Welchyboy]

Hate these types of customers!

just tell me what you want and how, then leave me alone to do it! if you want to get involved..........stick the kettle on!

Otherwise do it yourself!

 

[john999uk]

As long as the OP is actually using a proper spark I see his questions as valid. In that sometimes someone will tell you one thing as it's easiest for them. As others have said everyone has their methods of doing things and sometimes customers want something different. Some people may say that they can't do something due to 'the regs' when in actual fact it's because they don't normally do it that way and maybe they are not sure.

I once had a row with a solicitor who had 25 years experience in their field. After a number of telephone calls and emails I used government issues legal documentation to prove they were wrong and they begrudgingly accepted I was correct.

Just because someone is qualified and has lots of experience doesn't mean they are always correct.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well all i`l say is this:
you do whats required to comply.
you do whats required for conformance.
owt else is extra that the customer wants.

 

[Adam W]

I'm not asking anyone to be a "Sparkwatch" and I'm not trying to cast any judgement on anyone or upset anyone, as you do not know the person doing the work then how can you say "one who talks like he has had his head in BS7671".

All I'm trying to do is ensure the job is done correctly and within the current regulations how else do you check work being carried out is done correctly. Also it appears the regulations are a little ambiguous or at least not as clear as they could be and leave some of it open to interpretation rather than a cast in stone rule. As technology and materials move forward things change and as some of the stuff available now was not around or at least not in common usage when the regs were put together.

Well I don't know much about the job because I haven't seen it or met the electrician carrying out the work, but I'd be more than happy to stick my beak in and comment on something I don't fully understand.
The latest edition of the regs was released in 2008, amended last year. Presumably you're not looking to have this property rewired every year or so to keep up with developments in technology and materials?
If you don't trust the electrician doing the work then get someone in who you do - the worst thing you can do is start questioning everything and trying to change bits because you're unsure of the wording used in the regs book; the electrician's plan of action is more likely to fall apart the more you interfere with it.

 

[Knobhead]

If this guy isn't the elecrician, all I can say is god help whoever is.

Wouldn't surprise me if the day job is a trafic warden.

 

[cdavies33]

In years gone by maybe!! ...Now day's it is just as likely he is a fast track wanna-be electrician!! lol!!

And that's just the trouble, there is no up front distinction between the fully trained and experienced and the under trained inexperienced guy that turns up on your door step!!

I'm just trying to keep the faith in the industry E54, we must keep the faith!!!! lol Hopefully he's the proper job and not a Electrical Trainee.

 

[Grey Master]

I don't understand why you guys are getting at the OP, he sounds clued up eñough to want to be sure his spark is doing the right stuff.
You have no idea if the spark is a spark, if he is 17th qualified or jûst blagging it, Electrical Trainee or time served.
You make your feelings well known about those sorts but when someone wants to be reassured that their spark is doing things right you hjump on them as well!
Consistent if nothing else

 

[Adam W]

I don't understand why you guys are getting at the OP, he sounds clued up eñough to want to be sure his spark is doing the right stuff.
You have no idea if the spark is a spark, if he is 17th qualified or jûst blagging it, Electrical Trainee or time served.
You make your feelings well known about those sorts but when someone wants to be reassured that their spark is doing things right you hjump on them as well!
Consistent if nothing else

Exactly - none of us have seen the job either. The general idea is that a customer hires a tradesman because they know what they're doing, and will have reasons for doing things the way they do. If the customer is not confident that their tradesman is competent, they could pay for an inspection from the local authority or pay the electrician off and try to get someone else in to finish off what they started.

I can't think of anything worse than going to a job where the customer is looking over my shoulder with a copy of the regs book and asking me to explain it all to them, then dropping in things like "well I went on an internet forum and they said you were doing it all wrong".

If the customer were that clued up he would have been able to employ a competent tradesman.