Ring and Radial Sockets

[RomRobi]

Sometime ago I had my 15yr old, wanting to know the advantages and disadvantages of a ring to a radial sockets, and all I could think of was, you dont have to worry about volt drop in a ring and how much costly it could be, then I realised :banghead: I had been in the trade for while and felt like a mug I can't even managed enough solid reasons. I would appreciate any more contribution so I can go back and tell him, with head high, chest busting and he thinks old man is a genius.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[TPES]

Who said Final Ring Circuits are going to be scrapped?? I've been hearing this crap for donkey's years, mainly from clueless young sparks that don't like FRC because they can't fault find or test them correctly!!

The times that i've asked/enquired on this with the people in the know, all have virtually asked WHY!! And there lays the crutch of the matter, there is NO reason to scrap a perfectly good wiring system that has given sterling service to virtually every if not All households in the UK, not to mention those found in the commercial and industrial sectors, for the last 60 odd years!!

Why the hell should we be listening and taking notice of young kids that have literary just come into the industry?? As for Europe, let them stick to they're 30 circuits per house and they're oversized often DP DB's. It wouldn't suit the UK anyway, ....we haven't got any room for those big DB's/CUs, in most households, they barely have room for a 8 to 10 way CU as it is!! ...lol!!!

Ha ha ha, you sound exactly like the chap I know.. I can imagine him saying them exact words..

It would be good to see how many people can list more positive points of using RFC's as apposed to radials. I can't help but see a list twice as long for radials.

 

[madmac]

Rings can have as many sockets as you can fit in a 100m/sq area by taking into account diversity, where as radials are limited because of volt drop/distance. I also agree with GLENNSPARK,Tony, and Engineer54, that if it aint broke, don't fix it! I don't know what they are teaching guys at these "training facilities" but you have to wonder!:icon14:

 

[Knobhead]

TPES, I’m still waiting for your answer! Convince me and the others!

 

[TPES]

I'm not against them, I still install rings now and will probably continue too.

I can also see all the benefits of installing radials too.

I mean how many sockets do we fit in a standard 3 bed semi on a rewire? Can't see anything wrong with a couple of 20a radials to bedrooms upstairs for example.. And with appliances in bedrooms now days I can't see it being overloaded

 

[TPES]

I suppose time is against you in a customers house and probably quicker to form a ring..

But if it was your own house, time not against you, and had a huge CU I think I'd prob go for it

 

[Engineer54]

TPES,

This is all you need to know on this question....

The times that i've asked/enquired on this with the people in the know, all have virtually asked WHY!! And there lays the crutch of the matter, there is NO reason to scrap a perfectly good wiring system that has given sterling service to virtually every if not All households in the UK, not to mention those found in the commercial and industrial sectors, for the last 60 odd years!!

It works, and it works extremely well too!!!

That and the fact every type of circuit has it's place, you choose the circuit make up, based on the installations design needs and requirements, Not on personal preferences!! More often than not, those personal preferences can end up costing the client more money, or the self employed spark losing the job/contract...

Also remember those older sparks are not just opposing any thoughts on scrapping FRC because that's what they are used too, it's because they know a dammed site better, than the spotty kid that has just got on the tools, ....but ''thinks'' he knows all about final circuits, ....But somehow can't quite master fault finding FRC's , and testing them is more difficult than Radials too, So those FRC's need to be scrapped, they're just too much hassle!!! ....Yeah Right!!!!

 

[topquark]

It comes down to available space, either in the CU accomodating the extra PD's or for a larger CU. I guess that's not too much of an issue if it's a rewire.

Does anyone split rings into radials on a CU change (with or without any other additional work)?

 

[TPES]

Engineer 54, i don't disagree. I see your point exactly, I also understand the benefits of RFC's which is why I continue to install them, there is more and more kids scraping through to DI status who can't grasp testing and fault finding and would be stumped on testing and fault finding RFC's. Hence the reason they may prefer to install radials, I'm just saying radials are not all bad and can see benefits installing them in some situations. As you say pricing for the time taking you to install separate radials most the time may loose you the job.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It comes down to available space, either in the CU accomodating the extra PD's or for a larger CU. I guess that's not too much of an issue if it's a rewire.

Does anyone split rings into radials on a CU change (with or without any other additional work)?

You can split a ring (at one of the fronts) to make 2 radials and just fault find on both those (it wont take long to find out which one it is) then you just concentrate on that one (leg)....................

 

[Knobhead]

I’ll base this on a three-bed semi.

[h=1]And this is purely MY opinion[/h]

• Downstairs (ring)
• Upstairs (ring)
• Kitchen (ring)
• Cooker radial
• Freezer radial
• Light’s down. (ring)
• Light’s up. (ring)

I’m old fashioned but I still like lighting circuits in a ring even though it uses a bit more cable. 15[SUP]th[/SUP] edition I think. You get more CPC CSA at the ceiling rose for a start.

The lighting circuits on a ring are a bestard to sort out if there’s a fault. But if you know what you’re doing, it’s easy, if you know what you’re doing!

 

[Thomas123]

Why Would we want it to be easier to install, test and fault find...? If they make it too easy you'll have even more part p queens stealing work from skilled sparks.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Why Would we want it to be easier to install, test and fault find...? If they make it too easy you'll have even more part p queens stealing work from skilled sparks.

But just because somethings easy to install (be it a ring or a radial), test and fault find doesn`t make you a part p queen/teapot or whatever...you could say that ease of maintenence etc is good design art.............

 

[madmac]

I know wikipedia is not an authority on anything but have a gander at this link:Ring circuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Guest123]

I know wikipedia is not an authority on anything but have a gander at this link:Ring circuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So basically we have Adolf to thank for the invention of the RFC.

 

[madmac]

So basically we have Adolf to thank for the invention of the RFC.

Nice one Lenny, lol. At least he was good for something! lmfao!