Ring and Radial Sockets

[RomRobi]

Sometime ago I had my 15yr old, wanting to know the advantages and disadvantages of a ring to a radial sockets, and all I could think of was, you dont have to worry about volt drop in a ring and how much costly it could be, then I realised :banghead: I had been in the trade for while and felt like a mug I can't even managed enough solid reasons. I would appreciate any more contribution so I can go back and tell him, with head high, chest busting and he thinks old man is a genius.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You seem to me a level headed guy, that's taking in what your learning. You make a lot more sense, than some of the newly qualified sparks on the forum. You also tend to only ask about those tricky type questions, not the stuff that should have been well and truly learnt and become second nature!! ..lol!!

Now if a lot of that is down to the Boss/Electrician your working for, then my hat's off to him, he's doing a decent job of training one of the better future sparks into our industry.

When you have gained enough experience in the workplace, start thinking outside the box, look around and find a specialisation. One that is interesting and will be lucrative for many years to come. As an example, ...a high end testing commissioning Tech/Eng Covering everything from your usual 17th ed stuff, setting up VCB, GCB etc, protection relays and control, to protection co-ordination studies. It will involve learning and using both primary and secondary injection test kits, and a hell of a lot of other test kit, that you have probably never even heard of yet!! That profession has the ability for you to see the world, while being highly paid in the process. ...lol!!!

Wish you luck anyway, in whatever field you choose to follow or specialise in....

Thanks for these kind and encouraging words engineer 54. I am still only a first year student and will be doing AC theory(amongst other things this coming year so am a long way off yet. But it isn`t beyond anyone and i would also encourage anyone who so wishes to push on and learn..........:cheesy:

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Thanks for these kind and encouraging words engineer 54. I am still only a first year student and will be doing AC theory(amongst other things this coming year so am a long way off yet. But it isn`t beyond anyone and i would also encourage anyone who so wishes to push on and learn..........:cheesy:

I am quite suprised to read that you are only a first year student.
I thought from most of your posts that you would be much more experienced and qualified.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I am quite suprised to read that you are only a first year student.
I thought from most of your posts that you would be much more experienced and qualified.

I got my 2382 about 2 years ago then went on to get my 2392. At this point i then decided i would get myself to college (wakefield college skills xchange castleford). Whilst there i thought to myself why not go for the 2391 which i did and with perseverence and a lot of study (gn3) managed to pass first time. A few weeks after that i went for the 2377-11 and the 2377-12 so i am trying to build a portfolio along these lines. Of course there`s no substitute for experience and i have been lucky enough to secure an apprenticeship for myself and have the nvq-3 and the AM2 to come as well. I find this forum an invaluable source of info just by reading the posts from older/more experienced guys who have been at it for years as you can pick up loads of useful tips etc..........

 

[Engineer54]

I got my 2382 about 2 years ago then went on to get my 2392. At this point i then decided i would get myself to college (wakefield college skills xchange castleford). Whilst there i thought to myself why not go for the 2391 which i did and with perseverence and a lot of study (gn3) managed to pass first time. A few weeks after that i went for the 2377-11 and the 2377-12 so i am trying to build a portfolio along these lines. Of course there`s no substitute for experience and i have been lucky enough to secure an apprenticeship for myself and have the nvq-3 and the AM2 to come as well. I find this forum an invaluable source of info just by reading the posts from older/more experienced guys who have been at it for years as you can pick up loads of useful tips etc..........

So ...not quite a first year student then...lol!!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

So ...not quite a first year student then...lol!!!

Yep this will be my second year (start september 14) and looking forward to it too..........

 

[Knobhead]

Yep this will be my second year (start september 14) and looking forward to it too..........

My best wishes to you. The study can be hard I know but it’s worth it in the end. You’ll be a lot better than some of the graduate engineers I’ve been lumbered with over the years. “OK so that’s the theory, now lets see you get it to work”, no chance! You’ve got the opportunity to learn the theory with the chance to put it in to practice.

I was very lucky with my apprenticeship, we’d been doing DC motor theory at collage and to be honest I got well and truly muddled when it came to the field windings. Asked the foreman about it, his reaction was “I can help there”. He did, next day a wagon arrived with a 150HP motor for me to play with. I stripped it down to the last nut and bolt, did all the internal repairs and rebuilt it. We had a fantastic motor test bed so I got the chance to run it as well. The only down side was I missed my lunch to test run it. To start the MG set we had to do it either before everyone started work in the main engineering shop or at lunchtime. I did once start it just to see what would happen when everything else was working, not a good idea as I had to go with the charge hand to reset the 11KV breaker. 50+ guys banging hammers on their benches as I walked through the shop to the substation with the charge hand pointing at me all the way!

Out on the plants the guy’s would stand back and let me get on with things only stepping in before I blew myself up or did some major damage.

Enjoy yourself!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

My best wishes to you. The study can be hard I know but it’s worth it in the end. You’ll be a lot better than some of the graduate engineers I’ve been lumbered with over the years. “OK so that’s the theory, now lets see you get it to work”, no chance! You’ve got the opportunity to learn the theory with the chance to put it in to practice.

I was very lucky with my apprenticeship, we’d been doing DC motor theory at collage and to be honest I got well and truly muddled when it came to the field windings. Asked the foreman about it, his reaction was “I can help there”. He did, next day a wagon arrived with a 150HP motor for me to play with. I stripped it down to the last nut and bolt, did all the internal repairs and rebuilt it. We had a fantastic motor test bed so I got the chance to run it as well. The only down side was I missed my lunch to test run it. To start the MG set we had to do it either before everyone started work in the main engineering shop or at lunchtime. I did once start it just to see what would happen when everything else was working, not a good idea as I had to go with the charge hand to reset the 11KV breaker. 50+ guys banging hammers on their benches as I walked through the shop to the substation with the charge hand pointing at me all the way!

Out on the plants the guy’s would stand back and let me get on with things only stepping in before I blew myself up or did some major damage.

Enjoy yourself!

Thanks Tony. Yes it is good fun isn`t it!! Before i got into sparkying i was just doing crappy factory jobs with no skill and no respect whatsoever. I went to see the lads at the last factory job i had just a few weeks ago, took a look round and thought "did i ever work here"? Would i go back? Would i hellers like...............:cool3:

 

[Guest123]

Back to the topic - I'd be interested to know how many people here believe that the "deemed to meet the requirements of 433.1.1" in 433.1.5, which allows a cable with an Iz of 20A to be on a 30/32A device, means that you can put anything on such a ring final, not just sockets and FCUs etc, for example a CU.

Appendix 15 mentions what 'should' & 'shouldn't' be connected to a RFC

 

[TPES]

I had this chat with another spark who is of the older generation.. He says he doesn't understand scrapping ring mains and installing radials and thinks it's madness!! I definitely think it's an age thing, most older sparks don't like change at all and will always stick to what they know and just won't accept new methods even if they do make more sense

 

[oxocube]

Both have there uses and a lot depends on the extent of the circuit, the shape/height of the building and position of the fuseboard.

 

[Knobhead]

I had this chat with another spark who is of the older generation.. He says he doesn't understand scrapping ring mains and installing radials and thinks it's madness!! I definitely think it's an age thing, most older sparks don't like change at all and will always stick to what they know and just won't accept new methods even if they do make more sense

OK I’m an old codger now retired. You convince me of the advantages. For large kitchen appliances it does make sense, but it ends there.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I just think that
a) Its madness to want to scrap something that gives you choice
b) How much is this about change for changes sake
c) if rings are scrapped does that mean that new/recent (17th) installs with a clean bill of health suddenly become a code 4
d) how to take care of long runs without going big on csa.

 

[Engineer54]

Who said Final Ring Circuits are going to be scrapped?? I've been hearing this crap for donkey's years, mainly from clueless young sparks that don't like FRC because they can't fault find or test them correctly!!

The times that i've asked/enquired on this with the people in the know, all have virtually asked WHY!! And there lays the crutch of the matter, there is NO reason to scrap a perfectly good wiring system that has given sterling service to virtually every if not All households in the UK, not to mention those found in the commercial and industrial sectors, for the last 60 odd years!!

Why the hell should we be listening and taking notice of young kids that have literary just come into the industry?? As for Europe, let them stick to they're 30 circuits per house and they're oversized often DP DB's. It wouldn't suit the UK anyway, ....we haven't got any room for those big DB's/CUs, in most households, they barely have room for a 8 to 10 way CU as it is!! ...lol!!!

 

[Guest123]

For ring finals, App. 15 only shows them being used for sockets and FCUs.

Does that mean it's OK to put anything else on the circuit which is not explicitly cautioned against in 1(ii) or (iii)?

Well if you fit a fused connection unit in the spur cable before any load then you can connect away until your heart is content.

Any further queries should be addressed to Mr G. Kirchhoff, Konigsberg, East Prussia.

 

[topquark]

Well if you fit a fused connection unit in the spur cable before any load then you can connect away until your heart is content.

Any further queries should be addressed to Mr G. Kirchhoff, Konigsberg, East Prussia.

Think he might be having a bit of trouble with his post by now though