Save our trade! | Page 4 | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss Save our trade! in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

D Skelton

-
Mentor
Nearly Esteemed
Arms
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
4,127
Reaction score
3,602
Location
Milton Keynes
Sick of 5WWs? Sick of scam schemes? Sick of laughable training providers?

We as fully qualified electricians deserve better. The public deserve better. Get on here, start hitting the like button, share share share and spead the word guys!!!

We are boycotting the schemes, they can shove their ÂŁ500 assessment fees where the sun don't shine! We are the industry, not them, so there's absolutely no need to let these parasitic organisations run around acting on our behalf!

Save our trade!!!

https://www.facebook.com/ukelectricians
 
BES, neither Part Pee or the scams are fit for purpose! That is the whole point! The scams are profit making private companies, therefore their interest is never going to be public safety, only their balance sheet. As long as the scams exist, the decline of skills within the trade will continue. Part P needs to go or be severely re-written.

What we need is a licence to practice as an electrician in this country. The licence will be restricted only to those who posses a core qualification and proof of experience as a bare minimum. No more grandfather rights, no more 5WWs, no more kitchen fitters doing rewires! This licence needs to be backed by statute, which isn't hard contrary to popular belief, and there needs to be an enforcement process with teeth that exists to not only impose harsh penalties on those practicing as an electrician without a licence, but also to rip up the licence of any electrician who carries out poor work!
 
I agree with you to a certain point but there must be some way to allow people like myself who only want to do domestic work I have no desire to do ind or com work and have limited experiance doing that type of work so if a ful scope scheme came in and replaced part p id struggle to get the work to continue to trade.
 
I agree with you to a certain point but there must be some way to allow people like myself who only want to do domestic work I have no desire to do ind or com work and have limited experiance doing that type of work so if a ful scope scheme came in and replaced part p id struggle to get the work to continue to trade.

I understand your stance in wanting to protect your livelyhood , there needs to be a system that recognises all skill levels and training backgrounds and implimented in a manner thats not restrictive to trade & the economy in general.

however the flip side to your coin is that established electricians , such as JIB approved guys like myself , are not allowed to practice our trade in private residences without some stupid & overpriced scam scheme.

finding a middle ground will be most difficult to achieve............
 
I agree with you to a certain point but there must be some way to allow people like myself who only want to do domestic work I have no desire to do ind or com work and have limited experiance doing that type of work so if a ful scope scheme came in and replaced part p id struggle to get the work to continue to trade.

It has got nothing to do with the sector you work in. An electrician needs a full and fundamental understanding of why they do what they do, regardless of whether it's in a factory or a house. If you're fully qualified and can prove experience then you've nothing to worry about. In fact, you've got every reason to support it because if we had our way, about 50% of those currently undertaking domestic work would be forced to stop, therefore leaving people like you with more work!
 
Well thanks for your support!

Care to add anything constructive?
Hmmm, I think you're using entirely the wrong platform and it's an unproductive approach on the FB page. As soon as it comes across as old school protectionist and turns into a slanging match then the message is lost and you just come across as a hardline minority and easily dismissable as such.

The FB page is just a free for all, there's no debate, there's no clarity or direction. Just bitching and moaning about the status quo and stating an end game of ditching schemes and ditching fasttrack courses is going to achieve nothing unless you have a plan that has a clear aim and clear achievable steps that lead to it.

I thought your parliamentary evidence was a great step in the right direction and I took my hat off to you for being one of the few who actively involved themselves in the debate on something you felt strongly about. That was a focused effort to make a difference but I think this is going backwards.


its probably more productive if everyone left out their political beliefs for the benefit of trying to make changes to the electrical industry.
Agreed
 
BES, neither Part Pee or the scams are fit for purpose! That is the whole point! The scams are profit making private companies, therefore their interest is never going to be public safety, only their balance sheet. As long as the scams exist, the decline of skills within the trade will continue. Part P needs to go or be severely re-written.

What we need is a licence to practice as an electrician in this country. The licence will be restricted only to those who posses a core qualification and proof of experience as a bare minimum. No more grandfather rights, no more 5WWs, no more kitchen fitters doing rewires! This licence needs to be backed by statute, which isn't hard contrary to popular belief, and there needs to be an enforcement process with teeth that exists to not only impose harsh penalties on those practicing as an electrician without a licence, but also to rip up the licence of any electrician who carries out poor work!

You mean like ACS? That's the gas thing that I have and it works like this;

I wanted to work on gas. I already was competent working with pipes with water running through them so I already had a degree of competency so the next step was to do some training and assessment.

The first part is to learn about Gas Safety and this is all the do's and donts to prevent things going bang and testing (think MFT here but for gas) Flueing and ventilation is a big part of it because more people are killed by wrongly flued appliances and lack of adequate ventilation than there are of explosions.

Ok the next bit is the assessment and that's in 2 parts - written & practical. The written part consists of answering a lot of questions about the regs etc and the pass mark is 100%. any less and you fail.

Next is the practical bit and you're let loose on test rigs and thing where you have to diagnose faults and dangerous situations.

Pass both parts and you get your certificate with CCN-1 printed on it which means you're competent at sizing pipework (think cable sizing here) and and installing and testing said pipework etc. So in leccy terms you can first fix.

Now comes the Bolt-On bits.

Ok. you want to fit central heating boilers? Take the course and assessment for that and get the certificate.

Then there's Gas Fires, and Gas Cookers and Gas Tumble Dryers and a couple more besides.

Each of these courses & assessments called Modules are to be paid for separately and you can have as many or as few as you like, BUT CCN-1 is mandatory there is no escape from that.

Costs for this lot??

Well I have CCN-1, Gas Cookers, Central Heating Boilers <70kW and that lot cost me just under ÂŁ1k BUT it lasts for 5 years so spread out it's not too bad. (mine expires next month. I shall not be renewing it)

The wasp in the jam is Gas Safe which is like the leccy scams - you pay them every year just for them to look at your certificates and write you name in a book.

When I first started, it was CORGI and I paid my first years subscription and that was all they got out of me then Gas Safe took over and I never paid a penny to them.

As far as I was concerned I had certificates and a nice plastic card with writing on to prove my competence and that for me was enough!

I hope this ramble has been of some use to somebody.
 
Hmmm, I think you're using entirely the wrong platform and it's an unproductive approach on the FB page. As soon as it comes across as old school protectionist and turns into a slanging match then the message is lost and you just come across as a hardline minority and easily dismissable as such.

The FB page is just a free for all, there's no debate, there's no clarity or direction. Just bitching and moaning about the status quo and stating an end game of ditching schemes and ditching fasttrack courses is going to achieve nothing unless you have a plan that has a clear aim and clear achievable steps that lead to it.

I thought your parliamentary evidence was a great step in the right direction and I took my hat off to you for being one of the few who actively involved themselves in the debate on something you felt strongly about. That was a focused effort to make a difference but I think this is going backwards.

Should it even be a debate?

My opinion is that we now have to take direct action. We all need to stop paying the scams! That is what the FB page is about. I might be completely wrong, but I can't see the government doing anything about it, can you?
 
I understand what your trying to achive and agree the skill level in the trade has been watered down by the low standards required by the schemes this was a big mistake when part p started and the allowing of kitchen and bathroom fitters to do electrical work and the event of the Electrical Trainee has made a mockery of it. I also understand all thr jib sparks out there on the sites who can't do domestic without joining a scheme must be p***ed off l certainly would. Its simple there must be a vast increase in the standards to be allowed in a scheme, joe public shouldn't be allowef to attempt any electrcal work or purchace and of the parts to do so and the jib guys who what to do occasional domestic a pay as you go scheme
 
as far as I see it it does not matter if your domestic industrial or commercial if your a properly trained electrician you will have the basic knowledge to be able to do all.
yes you might be rusty at some of it but a trained spark should be able to look at a drawing or instructions and work out whats to be done with a little advice perhaps even when its something new a spark should be able to understand new instructions.
this all stems from core qualifications and a minimum of three years learning
these schemes allowing Electrical Trainee or kitchen fitters to install show them for what they really are
another layer taking money from our pockets
 
I've no interest in supporting a system that allows reduced skill levels of any kind. I want the scams gone and a license to practice on an individual basis.

Core qualification and NVQ3 being the minimum required qualifications to get a licence.

There is no such thing as a 'Domestic Installer'!

See this is difficult for me because while I wholeheartedly agree with you, I went into sparking 'relatively' late at 24 and have done 2330 and 2391 over the last 5 years, I've never done my nvq3 as I didn't have the full scope of work available when my 2330 went into the nvq3 part.

The core qualification is a definite, the nvq3 is a problem with me though.
 
Don't take this the wrong way but if the schemes restricted membership, then they would loose thousands of members and your subs would go up...... and there would be far more people running around doing sparking than now.

I think we need to get all of those in authority and power, dare I say it, to ACTUALLY do something about all the cowboys.

And this farce when a customer isn't happy then the customer has to allow the spark back in to do remedial work is a laugh.

Complaints need to be taken seriously and action taken (and not just about trade mark infringement)
 

Reply to Save our trade! in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

News and Offers from Sponsors

  • Article
Join us at electronica 2024 in Munich! Since 1964, electronica has been the premier event for technology enthusiasts and industry professionals...
    • Like
Replies
0
Views
450
  • Sticky
  • Article
Good to know thanks, one can never have enough places to source parts from!
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • Article
OFFICIAL SPONSORS These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then...
Replies
0
Views
1K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top