Short course trained operatives

[GMES]

You knew it had to come.
Mike and Tony have done the Electrician and Industrial so it is only fair we do one for the short course members, Mods this is not for Bashing them or taking the Michael but it will be good to see the results.
I am off to work now, but look forward to the results this evening!!

 

[Andy78]

And you know it's definitely a shambles because you have inspected and tested it thoroughly ?
And you know this guy was definitely time served because you have seen his credentials ?
Really ?

 

[Paulgwat]

So Electrical Trainee bashing is sour grapes on the part of those who have taken the time to get properly trained is it. What is the difference between a "Electrician" and a "Domestic Installer" with the latter they don't even give any credit to fault finding in the title



Please explain what prior technical knowledge or experience would you need or you would deem acceptable to take a short course



Bit light on information is the MCB tripping a recent problem. 5ish years ago would have been in the changover from 16th to 17th edition regs so could be where the wiring issue comes from re RCD's. You are assuming that there have been no alterations to this install since installation


One thing I've noticed Electrical Trainee are very quick to criticise when they find work that has been done by "supposedly time served sparks" with little or no evidence to back it up. No one ever asks to see your qualifications when you turn up on site as you will find out and will probably assume you are the real deal the short course is nothing new it's been around since the 70's and is just a hell of a lot shorter now than it was then

Hi Ung,

many net thanks for your comments

if you reread my post again you will see that it says I used to hold that opinion, I am not saying I now believe that short courses don't have there place but I do now understand some of the concerns people have.

Regarding the qualifications for entry to short courses I would say that it should be a minimum of a qualification in electrical engineering at an equal or greater level than that of the C&G quals which I assume these day would either be an HNC or HND ( I did my qualS 20 years ago so not sure how they map across these days). That way the candidate should be able to exhibit a sound knowledge of electrical principles and an understanding of what should be happening in a circuit and the dangers if it isn't behaving as expected. In terms of experience only, I would assume a time spent as an electricians mate - the assumption being that they would pick up some of the knowledge along the way by working with the more academic aspects without necessarily knowing the why's and wherefore's.

the individual is a long term friend of my wife and I know the install is as it was left by the previous electrician. The company involved have actually put very lovely sticky labels all over the cu with their logo on them and some simple googling of that company and companies house searches confirms they have been in business for 25 years plus.

Re the highlighting of work done by "supposedly time served" electricians I think this is a reciprocal of the " you'll never guess what some Electrical Trainee has done now" type posts that appear on the forum - probably neither type of post is positive but it seems the --- for tat isn't likely to stop anytime soon - unfortunately

regards

paul

 

[Paulgwat]

And you know it's definitely a shambles because you have inspected and tested it thoroughly ?
And you know this guy was definitely time served because you have seen his credentials ?
Really ?

Hi Andy,

okay so maybe shambles is too strong a term but there are a number of things that I have found by simple visual inspection that I would not in good conscience have left a customer with and would contravene the current edition of regs which this rewires is supposed to comply to based on the paperwork I have seen.

As I mention in my post to ung I have enough info to be satisfied that company and individual concerned have been trading for 25 years plus so I would assume that fits the criteria everyone uses on here for time served.

As you we'll know I obviously haven't seen copies of his exam certificates but he claims to have them just like you do and I do - if you know a way for me to check if he does in fact hold those quals I would be interested to know how.

regards

paul

 

[trev]

All due respect Paul but there is a thread on here dedicated to terrible installs and there's just as many "This was done by someone time served" as there are "Here's today's Electrical Trainee offering"
No one disputes that there are some bloody awful time served people kicking around who throw in installs which are potential death traps.
No one also disputes that some "graduates" of the short course route are proficient at what they do.
No one also disputes that a lot have realised they need further training and experience and have gone out and made sure they got it.
However, once you've been here a good while and have read the amount of threads from people who claim to be qualified electricians (because of the worthless scraps of paper some training centre salesman has sold them) yet cannot wire something as basic as a 2 way and intermediate switching arrangement then perhaps you'll be as jaded as a lot of us.
Some of these people actually feel themselves competent enough to wander into the world of multiple phases. Some of them are a danger to themselves and the unsuspecting public who are the unwitting victims of the training centre salesmen.

 

[dazza1981]

All due respect Paul but there is a thread on here dedicated to terrible installs and there's just as many "This was done by someone time served" as there are "Here's today's Electrical Trainee offering"
No one disputes that there are some bloody awful time served people kicking around who throw in installs which are potential death traps.
No one also disputes that some "graduates" of the short course route are proficient at what they do.
No one also disputes that a lot have realised they need further training and experience and have gone out and made sure they got it.
However, once you've been here a good while and have read the amount of threads from people who claim to be qualified electricians (because of the worthless scraps of paper some training centre salesman has sold them) yet cannot wire something as basic as a 2 way and intermediate switching arrangement then perhaps you'll be as jaded as a lot of us.
Some of these people actually feel themselves competent enough to wander into the world of multiple phases. Some of them are a danger to themselves and the unsuspecting public who are the unwitting victims of the training centre salesmen.

:iagree:

 

[tony mc]

Because the client wants some work done at the same time which will be notifiable and rather than do things piecemeal she wants it all sorting at once when she is back from her holiday.

It's been happening for 5 years and she only mentioned it to me as it tripped whilst I was there as she was making me a coffee - I obviously told her to be careful up until she went on holiday and I would sort it once she was back.

Good to see that in all of my post the best you could come up with by way of response was a jibe about my pending membership of a CPS, any thoughts or comments on how a supposedly time served sparks in business 25 years could make such a shambles of a simple rewire? Or would that be to the detriment to your noble profession?

Cheers

Paul

Hi Paul

I was not a go at you at all it was making a point that you do not need to be a member of a scheme.

I use the forum to gain knowledge and pass on advice if I possibly can sorry if you have taken it the wrong way !

Regards

Tony

 

[Paulgwat]

Hi Paul

I was not a go at you at all it was making a point that you do not need to be a member of a scheme.

I use the forum to gain knowledge and pass on advice if I possibly can sorry if you have taken it the wrong way !

Regards

Tony

Hi Tony,

My apologies Tony, I appreciate now that your answer was meant to be constructive rather than a dig.

regards

paul

 

[Paulgwat]

All due respect Paul but there is a thread on here dedicated to terrible installs and there's just as many "This was done by someone time served" as there are "Here's today's Electrical Trainee offering"
No one disputes that there are some bloody awful time served people kicking around who throw in installs which are potential death traps.
No one also disputes that some "graduates" of the short course route are proficient at what they do.
No one also disputes that a lot have realised they need further training and experience and have gone out and made sure they got it.
However, once you've been here a good while and have read the amount of threads from people who claim to be qualified electricians (because of the worthless scraps of paper some training centre salesman has sold them) yet cannot wire something as basic as a 2 way and intermediate switching arrangement then perhaps you'll be as jaded as a lot of us.
Some of these people actually feel themselves competent enough to wander into the world of multiple phases. Some of them are a danger to themselves and the unsuspecting public who are the unwitting victims of the training centre salesmen.

Hi Trev,

I wholeheartedly agree with 99% of what you say, the only point I would question is that I am not sure those who are graduates of the short courses are given an opportunity to prove themselves before being condemned as money motivated ex tesco shelf stackers without a clue what they are doing.

i have already signed up to do multiple city and guilds and industry/ manufacturer specific qualifications all the way into 2016 as I fully appreciate I still have a phenomenal amount to learn.

from my background I know enough theory to know I won't be going near anything 3 phase / industrial unless it is under the supervision of someone much more conversant with it than I am.

hopefully time will allow us short coursers to demonstrate to some on the forum that we are not a liability waiting to kill someone and that there is a genuine space for us all in this industry.

i don't want to highjack this thread so unless there are specific questions directed at me I think I have said my piece and will let others express their opinions - no doubt some will disagree with me but then that is their right at the end of the day. If we all agreed life would be dull!!!!

regards

paul

 

[UNG]

Post #49 well put Trev sums everything up very well

 

[Guest77]

Sorry but this thread is total rollocks, it is impossible to be a competant electrician after spending 6-8k on a 5 week course, no point dressing anything about these courses up, impossible, it is however possible to take a 5 week course and then spend 2-3 years on site and then become competant, big big difference, 5 weeks= numpty, 5 weeks then a couple of years on site = competance.

 

[dave274]

I think its a bit out of order to be assuming that people are numpties. You dont know me from adam so don't just assume I'm stupid.

 

[davesparks]

If someone is daft enough to believe the claims about learning to be an electrician in 5weeks and making ££££££'s per year then that says quite a bit about them!

Get rich quick schemes don't work!

 

[GMES]

Sorry but this thread is total rollocks, it is impossible to be a competant electrician after spending 6-8k on a 5 week course, no point dressing anything about these courses up, impossible, it is however possible to take a 5 week course and then spend 2-3 years on site and then become competant, big big difference, 5 weeks= numpty, 5 weeks then a couple of years on site = competance.

You will be if you Diss my thread again lad!!!

 

[Paul.M]

You will be if you Diss my thread again lad!!!

I'll put the kettle on, make a brew and watch the rest of this thread for entertainment value.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I'll put the kettle on, make a brew and watch the rest of this thread for entertainment value.

They are not the words of a respected moderator Paul!!

I think this is just going to turn into the same as all the other threads regarding Electrical Trainee and perhaps is not the reason GMES started it.... GMES?