Short course trained operatives

[GMES]

You knew it had to come.
Mike and Tony have done the Electrician and Industrial so it is only fair we do one for the short course members, Mods this is not for Bashing them or taking the Michael but it will be good to see the results.
I am off to work now, but look forward to the results this evening!!

 

[davesparks]

I have had 3 'short course trained operatives' work with me to gain experience.
2 of them didn't last past day 2 due to complete lack of knowledge, aptitude, common sense or practical ability. Not all of this is due to the 5 week course but their misplaced belief that they were fully qualified electricians was!

The third on also had a significant lack of knowledge and electrical skills, but did have the right attitude and basic practical ability and good manners. That one stayed with me for 6 months as an apprentice until she got offered a job, and I would happily have her work with me again anytime. But she has a background as a stage lighting technician so had a good knowledge of the basics to start with and I can honestly say I don't think she would have done any worse if she had come straight to working with me rather than doing the course.

So that's only 3 of the the thousands of Electrical Trainee out there but as far as I'm concerned that's enough for me to condemn them.

And I also think the training of apprentices needs to be tightened up, people should fail the course if they don't measure up, not just get a pat on the back and as many go's as they like. But you can extend that to the entire education system in this country!

 

[dave274]

I didn't think I'd be earning big bucks over night and I also didn't think I would know everything after the course was completed, I admit that I didn't know what exactly would be needed to be an electrician but that doesn't make me stupid. I still work four on four off as a hgv driver and I do electrical work in my time off. The course didn't cost me eight grand it cost me a grand and half because the MOD paid a grand towards it, I got this grand because I served seven and half years as a Royal Marines Commando. Not that many stupid people in there I can assure you.

 

[Paul.M]

They are not the words of a respected moderator Paul!!

Just keeping an eye on this thread mate, dont want it to get any worse.

I think this is just going to turn into the same as all the other threads regarding Electrical Trainee and perhaps is not the reason GMES started it.... GMES?

Not GMES's intentions as already stated from the start.


The short courses were designed initially for people working within a similar industry and teaching them the domestic side of it. M.O.D. engineers on ships is a good example, works on a nuclear destroyer for 7 years but he/she cant rewire a house without a bit of paper????? On the other hand we have people that want to better themselves via further adult education. This has created a "want and need" demand so certain people/companies set up shop with better sales people than teachers, happens in all walks of life. eg, "pass your driving test in a week" or "become a plasterer in 5 days".

 

[GMES]

They are not the words of a respected moderator Paul!!

I think this is just going to turn into the same as all the other threads regarding Electrical Trainee and perhaps is not the reason GMES started it.... GMES?

OOOOOOOOOHHh yes it is :sifone:

 

[GMES]

Not GMES's intentions as already stated from the start.


The short courses were designed initially for people working within a similar industry and teaching them the domestic side of it. M.O.D. engineers on ships is a good example, works on a nuclear destroyer for 7 years but he/she cant rewire a house without a bit of paper????? On the other hand we have people that want to better themselves via further adult education. This has created a "want and need" demand so certain people/companies set up shop with better sales people than teachers, happens in all walks of life. eg, "pass your driving test in a week" or "become a plasterer in 5 days".

Yes sorry Paul and happy,that is the answer I meant to give mg_smile:

 

[davesparks]

Not GMES's intentions as already stated from the start.


The short courses were designed initially for people working within a similar industry and teaching them the domestic side of it. M.O.D. engineers on ships is a good example, works on a nuclear destroyer for 7 years but he/she cant rewire a house without a bit of paper????? On the other hand we have people that want to better themselves via further adult education. This has created a "want and need" demand so certain people/companies set up shop with better sales people than teachers, happens in all walks of life. eg, "pass your driving test in a week" or "become a plasterer in 5 days".

Go on then, what is it about working on a nuclear destroyer that qualifies someone to rewire a house?
Do they get much chance to lift floorboards, correctly route cables, plan domestic circuits, deal with clients successfully, generally get cables from one end of the house to the other without any visible signs after they have left?

 

[dingledong]

What annoys me about them is some think they are good sparks but finding a fault takes all day and charge all day where experienced sparkles would find the fault in an hour .I just feel they are ripping people of
I do something else and I get local people or jobs I am on ask me to do something of do explain its more of a hobby but I will try , I will be cheaper than a professional if it takes me forever or I can't do it I don't charge
But I have seen a couple who,s work was ok but their prices were very expensive

 

[Guest77]

You will be if you Diss my thread again lad!!!

You started it? oops, sorry about that, can't wait to see what I will be sorry about though

 

[Guest77]

I'll put the kettle on, make a brew and watch the rest of this thread for entertainment value.

Me too, whats happening?

 

[Guest77]

You will be if you Diss my thread again lad!!!

It went off topic a bit and I forgot what it was all about fella, aplogies.

 

[Paul.M]

Go on then, what is it about working on a nuclear destroyer that qualifies someone to rewire a house?
Do they get much chance to lift floorboards, correctly route cables, plan domestic circuits, deal with clients successfully, generally get cables from one end of the house to the other without any visible signs after they have left?

I know a chap that worked on nuclear ships for 7 years as an electrical engineer in the M.O.D. Came out of his time and under took a short course for the qualifications required for a domestic installer. No need to teach him about ohms law, IP ratings, cable grouping, ambient temperature etc etc etc. He needs to know about the part P stuff and the DI courses to become a competent domestic installer. That is what these short courses were designed to do, get people with knowledge of the industry and teach them the ways of the domestic side of things. He is an excellent Electrician and runs a very successful business.

"get cables from one end of the house to the other" The do it on ships, a 3 bed semi is not a big deal.

"...without any visible signs after they have left". That is just very good DIY skills. How many electricians have been on a course to learn how to lift and replace floorboards or fill in chase?

 

[Guest77]

I know a chap that worked on nuclear ships for 7 years as an electrical engineer in the M.O.D. Came out of his time and under took a short course for the qualifications required for a domestic installer. No need to teach him about ohms law, IP ratings, cable grouping, ambient temperature etc etc etc. He needs to know about the part P stuff and the DI courses to become a competent domestic installer. That is what these short courses were designed to do, get people with knowledge of the industry and teach them the ways of the domestic side of things. He is an excellent Electrician and runs a very successful business.

"get cables from one end of the house to the other" The do it on ships, a 3 bed semi is not a big deal.

"...without any visible signs after they have left". That is just very good DIY skills. How many electricians have been on a course to learn how to lift and replace floorboards or fill in chase?

I can understand that completely, trouble now though is these so called skill centres conning unsuspecting folk to part with 6-8k and they are told they are qualified Electricians afterwards, this has made the short courses gain a reputation and not a good one either, what you have mentioned is different and I understand your point.

 

[davesparks]

"...without any visible signs after they have left". That is just very good DIY skills. How many electricians have been on a course to learn how to lift and replace floorboards or fill in chase?

I did a course that taught me all of those kind of skills, it lasted 4 years and was called an apprenticeship.

I don't doubt that people coming from such backgrounds know much more of the theory and science than I do, and I respect them for that. But there are practical skills associated with each part of this industry that can only be learned by working alongside people who have already got those skills.

It won't take long to make the change from one to the other, if they have good practical ability then a few weeks could do the basics, but sitting in a classroom and wiring a few circuits on a wooden wall in a classroom won't do it!

 

[Paul.M]

I did a course that taught me all of those kind of skills, it lasted 4 years and was called an apprenticeship.

I don't doubt that people coming from such backgrounds know much more of the theory and science than I do, and I respect them for that. But there are practical skills associated with each part of this industry that can only be learned by working alongside people who have already got those skills.

It won't take long to make the change from one to the other, if they have good practical ability then a few weeks could do the basics, but sitting in a classroom and wiring a few circuits on a wooden wall in a classroom won't do it!

Dave I agree with you but I cant post up any thing more unless in the Arms.

 

[UNG]

"...without any visible signs after they have left". That is just very good DIY skills. How many electricians have been on a course to learn how to lift and replace floorboards or fill in chase?

I believe that was called on the job training back in my day 4 days a week on site and 1 9 hour day at college learning the trade


Unfortunately the short course is not like a microwave no matter how you present / teach the information does not go in any quicker on a short course than it does taking the normal route