So what’s the script with these AFFDs?

[MFS Electrical]

been doing some poking about on the 18th and came across something about AFFDs is this gonna be something else that we are going to have to sell to our customers when all they want to do is add a couple of sockets to an existing RFC? Like the inevitable I want 4 new sockets, no problem but as the latest version of the regs requires that all socket outlets are RCD protected, your going to need to add RCDs/RCBOs or do a consumer unit change oh and now it’s gonna cost you more because it’ll need AFFDs too. At which point most people reply f**k sake mate only wanted 4 sockets put in not a complete upgrade then of course dodgy Dave comes in at your back and fits the 4 sockets cause he doesn’t give 2 flying F***s and it works for ever and ever and ever. I’m all for upgrading to higher safety standards etc but customers think your taking the p***s trying to rope them into work they don’t need. Where does the madness end??!!

 

[MFS Electrical]

I really don't understand why the UK regs are getting a hard-on for these things, even the good ones don't work properly on ring circuits of any kind.

I hadn’t even thought that about ring circuits confusing the living daylights out of them that should be interesting or maybe if they implement the AFFDs theyll do away with rings and everything will be radials maybe I should see if I can chip in with the IET that could be enough to warrant publishing AMD 1 to the 18th

 

[Marvo]

Or a sh*tload more expensive instrumentation just to find the faults ourselves ...

Yes, it probably will come down to needing very expensive test equipment. To detect an arc fault you need a digital waveform analyser kinda similar to an oscilloscope but with more micro-processing intelligence built in.

 

[MFS Electrical]

Yes, it probably will come down to needing very expensive test equipment. To detect an arc fault you need a digital waveform analyser kinda similar to an oscilloscope but with more micro-processing intelligence built in.

And then probably something to measure how far away in the circuit it is

 

[Marvo]

I don't keep up with the bleeding edge of this type of technology so I'd need to do some reading up but as far as I know you'd need to convert a ring to a radial if you want to detect series arc faults. It should still detect parallel arc faults though on a ring final circuit.

 

[Octopus]

I really don't understand why the UK regs are getting a hard-on for these things, even the good ones don't work properly on ring circuits of any kind.

That’s easy to answer ..... the IET are struggling to justify the unrealistically regular updates to the regs....... so they grasp at straws like this ......

There are only so many changes that make any logical sense, and AFFD’s are not one of them

What regs do you follow?

 

[Octopus]

I’m not quite sure I get your thinking on this? Why do you think it’s an I’ll conceived idea and then if you do ignore it and something goes ti*s up how would you justify not installing it against the guidance of the regs in court etc I’m not trying to criticise I’m just wondering about your thinking on this.

My thinking is very simple ..... until the IET can summarise in 1 paragraph what the need is I won’t take the idea seriously

After all, nobody does anything about bob the builder messing around with electrics......

 

[MFS Electrical]

That’s easy to answer ..... the IET are struggling to justify the unrealistically regular updates to the regs....... so they grasp at straws like this ......

There are only so many changes that make any logical sense, and AFFD’s are not one of them

What regs do you follow?

It still leaves me wondering that if you failed to comply with this and god forbid someone was killed in a house fire that an “IET expert” testifies could have been prevented if you’d followed the regs what justification would you have to keep yourself out of jail for not fitting an AFFD?

 

[MFS Electrical]

My thinking is very simple ..... until the IET can summarise in 1 paragraph what the need is I won’t take the idea seriously

After all, nobody does anything about bob the builder messing around with electrics......

Fair enough I see your point. Nobody does anything But only Until it all goes wrong...

 

[Toneyz]

The word here is recommended.

 

[MFS Electrical]

The word here is recommended.

yeah Beama’s report is a recommendation but apparently the 18th will be making it a requirement in certain circumstances like RCDs were

 

[Octopus]

So what about mandatory rcd protection for lighting circuits .....

So at the moment surface cabling and no need for RCDs .....what is the IET justification for this change?

 

[Marvo]

What regs do you follow?

I mostly build control panels and for local customers we work to the South African National Standards which is SANS10142 for electrical. We sometimes build panels for export in which case we'll build to the US regs or British Standards or whatever regs they specify.

 

[MFS Electrical]

So what about mandatory rcd protection for lighting circuits .....

So at the moment surface cabling and no need for RCDs .....what is the IET justification for this change?

They need to line their coffers but if you think about it no matter how hard you try to make Electrical installations safe there will always be some nugget who will manage to fry themselves . So the IET will always be able to justify some crap
Speaking of nuggets I’d quite fancy a trip to McDonald’s right now

 

[Toneyz]

So what about mandatory rcd protection for lighting circuits .....

So at the moment surface cabling and no need for RCDs .....what is the IET justification for this change?

Isn't it just domestic? and this involves the possibility of the DIYer.

 

[Marvo]

The word here is recommended.

I'd guess that as with most new regs the words like 'recommended' or 'should' will be replaced with 'mandatory' and 'must' in a couple of regs amendments down the line.