So what’s the script with these AFFDs?

[MFS Electrical]

been doing some poking about on the 18th and came across something about AFFDs is this gonna be something else that we are going to have to sell to our customers when all they want to do is add a couple of sockets to an existing RFC? Like the inevitable I want 4 new sockets, no problem but as the latest version of the regs requires that all socket outlets are RCD protected, your going to need to add RCDs/RCBOs or do a consumer unit change oh and now it’s gonna cost you more because it’ll need AFFDs too. At which point most people reply f**k sake mate only wanted 4 sockets put in not a complete upgrade then of course dodgy Dave comes in at your back and fits the 4 sockets cause he doesn’t give 2 flying F***s and it works for ever and ever and ever. I’m all for upgrading to higher safety standards etc but customers think your taking the p***s trying to rope them into work they don’t need. Where does the madness end??!!

 

[Toneyz]

What is the size of these things?

 

[MFS Electrical]

What is the size of these things?

by the looks of the Eaton one around 3 MCBs wide but god knows

 

[Midwest]

As mentioned by Marvo.

In the Winter 2017 edition of the (Certsure) Connections magazine, there's a piece on AFDD's.

Amongst other things discussed was 'Limitations of AFDD's'.

'An AFDD will not detect a series arc fault in one leg of a Ring Final Circuit because of the dual path the load current takes - that is, if a series break were to exist in a RFC the current would flow down the 'good leg' not permitting the arcing to exist. However, an AFDD will detect a series or parallel fault on spurs connected to a RFC.
An AFDD will detect series or parallel arcing in leads of cords sets of equipment/appliances plugged into an RFC'. (doesn't mention parallel faults on a RFC?).

I wonder if the 20th Edition will see the demise of the RFC?

 

[Midwest]

The other little interesting fact which Marvo alluded to is the testing of AFDD's, according to the same piece.

There is currently no testing device for an AFDD. However the device has its own manual test button, like an RCD etc.

An AFDD also has an automatic test function which consists of a test on switch on, and at intervals not exceeding at least once a day. If a malfunction is detected, the device will trip.

Happy days.

 

[pirate]

and just as I was beginning to think I had grasped maybe 0.001% of a millionth of a squidgeon of this electricity thingy, along comes another whatsit I've never heard of,
AFFS!

 

[gutterball]

Haven't looked into these. Could you fit one before the CU or does it have to be individual circuits?

 

[Octopus]

Happy reading:

How an Arc Fault Detection Devices (AFDD) can prevent electrical fire? - https://blog.schneider-electric.com/power-management-metering-monitoring-power-quality/2013/07/03/do-you-know-an-arc-fault-detection-device-afdd-can-prevent-from-an-electrical-fire/


No doubt the manufacturers pressed the IET for their inclusion in the 18th Edition on safety grounds ...... oops on profit grounds

 

[Octopus]

Thing is about AFDD's - if there isn't any way to test them .......... who is to say they are compliant, or faulty?

Surely this is a backwards step

At least with RCD's and RCBO's people with know and test equipment can check with tests that they are functioning properly

 

[Spoon]

I did have a quick scout about but couldn’t see any other threads mentioning it could you post a link or give me the name of it so I could have a gander?

Sorry mate. I thought I attached the thread to my post. Anyhow, here it is.
Sorry for the late reply, was busy.

 

[Spoon]

^^ loose work .... who to .... ?

Either to some nugget who won’t be concerned about applying the regs or the customer may decide they don’t actually need the work because of the extras involved either way you’ve lost the work

My thought are with the above reply.

 

[Octopus]

My thought are with the above reply.

Which is precisely what the IET simply don't understand

There are already too many people not installing to the regs and many are paid up scam members ..................

 

[Spoon]

Which is precisely what the IET simply don't understand

There are already too many people not installing to the regs and many are paid up scam members ..................

I agree mate.
Also if the IET made the public aware of the change and the affect that it will have it will make the general public more understanding rather than them thinking they are being ripped off by someone wanting more money for a job.
If this does get applied to the domestic side then it's going to be a kick in the nuts for the electricians who do domestic work.

 

[Octopus]

I agree mate.
Also if the IET made the public aware of the change and the affect that it will have it will make the general public more understanding rather than them thinking they are being ripped off by someone wanting more money for a job.
If this does get applied to the domestic side then it's going to be a kick in the nuts for the electricians who do domestic work.

Thats well beyond any expectation I have!

They don't communicate to the trade, nor do the scams, so poor old sparks are left to do the job ........................ as if we don't have enough on our plates already.

 

[Spoon]

Thats well beyond any expectation I have!

They don't communicate to the trade, nor do the scams, so poor old sparks are left to do the job ........................ as if we don't have enough on our plates already.

I totally agree. They are more concerned with their profit. They will not spend money telling the public about 'safety upgrades'. This a farce...

 

[ipf]

As mentioned by Marvo.

In the Winter 2017 edition of the (Certsure) Connections magazine, there's a piece on AFDD's.

Amongst other things discussed was 'Limitations of AFDD's'.

I wonder if the 20th Edition will see the demise of the RFC?

It may well do............but it'll be the 25th Edition before they get rid of 'em all. So there'll be problems for decades to come....mind you , some genius may come up with something....maybe something special like that fuse wire stuff