Tell us about your faults!

[kung]

Hi ALL
Just thought id put this one up for all those faults we find.
heres one to kick it off !
Domestic RCD tripped and wouldnt reset cause was a blown low energy light bulb.
There you go now for yours !

 

[Andrewr3]

Found a ring main fault today. I was doing the testing after adding a socket on a spur. The signs of a problem started with open circuit on the ring neutral and then a N-E insulation resistance measurement that took just a little longer than usual to settle. But things had changed after deciding to double check appliance on the ring was isolated. I was sure I had ring continuity earlier. I finally found the fault in a switched fused spur to a washing machine. One of the ring neutrals connected into the load side of the switch, and the load neutral was where the leg of the ring should have been. It had been like that since the property was built in 1996. If the washing machine isolator switch was on then the ring sort of worked OK, but when it was off all was not well.

Two months ago in the same property I did a direct replacement of a DSSO on the same ring that had an overheated (charred) line (live) connection terminal. My first thought today was the was the overheating was caused by overload on the broken ring. But of course it could not be because the line ring was always OK. The only common factor between the loose terminal on the DSSO and the mis wired 13A Fused Spur was the installer in 1996.

 

[Andrewr3]

Found a ring main fault today. I was doing the testing after adding a socket on a spur. The signs of a problem started with open circuit on the ring neutral and then a N-E insulation resistance measurement that took just a little longer than usual to settle. But things had changed after deciding to double check appliance on the ring was isolated. I was sure I had ring continuity earlier. I finally found the fault in a switched fused spur to a washing machine. One of the ring neutrals connected into the load side of the switch, and the load neutral was where the leg of the ring should have been. It had been like that since the property was built in 1996. If the washing machine isolator switch was on then the ring sort of worked OK, but when it was off all was not well.

Two months ago in the same property I did a direct replacement of a DSSO on the same ring that had an overheated (charred) line (live) connection terminal. My first thought today was the was the overheating was caused by overload on the broken ring. But of course it could not be because the line ring was always OK. The only common factor between the loose terminal on the DSSO and the mis wired 13A Fused Spur was the installer in 1996.

Same property but next day, in the same kitchen on the same ring. Found a very wrong but elegantly wired pair of 13A switched fused spurs in a twin recessed steel back box. The ring protective conductor from left side of the ring was neatly terminated in the top left rear of the steel back box in a proper box terminal. Nothing else connected with it. The right side ring protective conductor was similarly terminated in the top right rear of the back box, again nothing else connected with it. The each of the load protective conductors were connected to the earth terminal on their respective spur front plates and nothing else with them! It looked very pretty, wish I had a camera there. One of the spurs was a floor level heater the other was the cooker hood fan.

To test protective conductor ring continuity was a hassle as well because in the CU the two ends of the ring protective conductor were twisted together and packed into one green/yellow sleeve. It was a long sleeve as well because the CU was a large one. So I had to untwist that lot and re sleeve as well. There was another ring protective conductor trussed up in the same way as well.

Further around the wall I found loose terminals connections on a "hob" double pole isolator switch. Also had a wire fall out of another Fused Spur when I took the cover off.

This totals to finding 4 wiring faults in the kitchen and one in the hall on a spur for a bathroom heater in the same property!

It is a flat in a block. I'll be speaking with the management agent tomorrow.

 

[Andrewr3]

Same property but next day, in the same kitchen on the same ring. Found a very wrong but elegantly wired pair of 13A switched fused spurs in a twin recessed steel back box. The ring protective conductor from left side of the ring was neatly terminated in the top left rear of the steel back box in a proper box terminal. Nothing else connected with it. The right side ring protective conductor was similarly terminated in the top right rear of the back box, again nothing else connected with it. The each of the load protective conductors were connected to the earth terminal on their respective spur front plates and nothing else with them! It looked very pretty, wish I had a camera there. One of the spurs was a floor level heater the other was the cooker hood fan.

.

Update on this what I perceived was a "fault". Concerning how I found the connections 1) using the steel backbox itself as part of the durable connection for the circuit protective conductor ring is not a fault, but it could well be considered bad practice. If the steel backbox between the two separate terminal connections on it provides an equivalent CSA to the 1.5mm copper conductor then all is OK. This surprised me, but I can accept that. 2) using the front plate screws to pick up the protective conductor to the load is also acceptable, but again not necessarily best practice in this circumstance. My conclusion is that what I considered to be a fault on these two spurs was in fact acceptable. But I would not do it myself that way.

 

[Engineer54]

2) using the front plate screws to pick up the protective conductor to the load is also acceptable

Is it?? I'd beg to differ, at the very least a suitably sized flying lead should be connecting the back box to the accessory faceplate. Fine for the faceplate screws to earth the back, but not to earth the accessory faceplate.

Once the face plate has been removed from the back box, there is no CPC at the face plate!! Relying on fixing plate screws for the appliances sole means of a CPC is wrong in anyone's book, no matter what it say's or doesn't say in in BS7671, .....or any other publication come to that!!

 

[Andrewr3]

Is it?? I'd beg to differ, at the very least a suitably sized flying lead should be connecting the back box to the accessory faceplate. Fine for the faceplate screws to earth the back, but not to earth the accessory faceplate.

Once the face plate has been removed from the back box, there is no CPC at the face plate!! Relying on fixing plate screws for the appliances sole means of a CPC is wrong in anyone's book, no matter what it say's or doesn't say in in BS7671, .....or any other publication come to that!!

I took advice on this from the NICEIC tech help line. The practice they would like to see would be not to rely on just the screws. I agree with you engineer54 and NICEIC best practice, hence why I fixed the "fault". Even where the protective conductor is steel conduit to steel end box I would still use a fly lead. But I can see the point that when the front plate is screwed down as it should, then adequate connectivity will/could be present. When the faceplate screws are loose the circuit will always (in theory) be isolated anyway. Of course I am well aware of situations where decorators choose to loosen the face plates to paint the walls and electricians may remove a face plate while testing/on near live parts on a double pole switch or a fused spur.

 

[Tiny Spark]

And what about when they vibrate loose, corrode, or cross thread?
I dont care what anyone says fronts should be earthed the same as anything else.

 

[Kate]

Builders way of wiring safely after removing old consumer which by the way was functional.

Had that on a recent job. I had installed a bank of two twin sockets temporarily while place was gutted...2.5mm radial on a 16A with a 30mA RCD.

Mains incomer got moved on a friday afternoon...so my temp dis/board no longer worked...builder worked weekend so connected my temporary radial straight into mains.

I went mental when I saw it monday morning and got laughed at for it.

 

[sajeel]

Had that on a recent job. I had installed a bank of two twin sockets temporarily while place was gutted...2.5mm radial on a 16A with a 30mA RCD.

Mains incomer got moved on a friday afternoon...so my temp dis/board no longer worked...builder worked weekend so connected my temporary radial straight into mains.

I went mental when I saw it monday morning and got laughed at for it.

Hi Kate

Builders cannot be sparks the way I see it

 

[Engineer54]

I took advice on this from the NICEIC tech help line. The practice they would like to see would be not to rely on just the screws. I agree with you engineer54 and NICEIC best practice, hence why I fixed the "fault". Even where the protective conductor is steel conduit to steel end box I would still use a fly lead. But I can see the point that when the front plate is screwed down as it should, then adequate connectivity will/could be present. When the faceplate screws are loose the circuit will always (in theory) be isolated anyway. Of course I am well aware of situations where decorators choose to loosen the face plates to paint the walls and electricians may remove a face plate while testing/on near live parts on a double pole switch or a fused spur.

Since when does the NICEIC decide what is or isn't acceptable?? If they actually accept this method of connecting socket outlet's, FCU's and other power based wall accessories, yet another reason NOT to rely on these outfits for guidance!! Useing the face plate fixing screws as the sole means of earthing connected equipment and appliances, is not and should not, ever be acceptable!!

 

[Kate]

Hi Kate

Builders cannot be sparks the way I see it

Definitely not. They are of the mentality 'well the kettle works when I plug it in so it must be right'

Dont get me started on plumbers though!!!!! My (easiest way to describe) "father-in-law" is a plumber. I visit his house regular. They are doing up the house. He knows I would do free elecs for him yet decides to do it himself...its fooking awful!!!!

Cant even get the bathrooms right...how does he think he can do elecs??? Lights tapped off rings, no sleeving at all, JB's everywhere. Rewired kitchen himself few years ago and just tapped new ring legs to nearest cable he found by cutting and JBing..ended up a balloon configuration....i never did find the other leg it was live under floor. Had to rewire it all myself.

Sorry I got started hahahaha.

In his defence..the problems with bathrooms are tile and stud wall related. Tiling was awful and water got behind them.

 

[Amandaroepke]

I got called to a house to rectify a cooker circuit that had tripped and stopped working. Traced the fault all the way back to inside to cooker only to find an electrocuted mouse between live and earth.........nice!

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Since when does the NICEIC decide what is or isn't acceptable?? If they actually accept this method of connecting socket outlet's, FCU's and other power based wall accessories, yet another reason NOT to rely on these outfits for guidance!! Useing the face plate fixing screws as the sole means of earthing connected equipment and appliances, is not and should not, ever be acceptable!!

spot on!

 

[Amandaroepke]

Looks like a quote for a db and split up wiring circuits to balance load

 

[sajeel]

Definitely not. They are of the mentality 'well the kettle works when I plug it in so it must be right'

Dont get me started on plumbers though!!!!! My (easiest way to describe) "father-in-law" is a plumber. I visit his house regular. They are doing up the house. He knows I would do free elecs for him yet decides to do it himself...its fooking awful!!!!

Cant even get the bathrooms right...how does he think he can do elecs??? Lights tapped off rings, no sleeving at all, JB's everywhere. Rewired kitchen himself few years ago and just tapped new ring legs to nearest cable he found by cutting and JBing..ended up a balloon configuration....i never did find the other leg it was live under floor. Had to rewire it all myself.

Sorry I got started hahahaha.

In his defence..the problems with bathrooms are tile and stud wall related. Tiling was awful and water got behind them.

I hear you Kate, builders and plumbers. Many times I have seen electrics done the way you mentioned. They just tap a feed it works so job done.

 

[Kate]

Or the whole...'havent got 2.5mm but ive got 1.0mm...that will do' or vice versa