Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not sure!

[yoz7241]

I am thinking bout going into voltage optimisation, i think this technology went unnoticed domestically due to the solar being a biggy in the energy market and now with it dying off due to goverment tariff cuts i think if more people understood voltage optimisation, alot more people would have it.
Just wondering if any other companies have tried, been successful or failed and if anyone else thinks this might be the next step into cutting forever growing energy bills!!!!

Any information you may have would be grately appreciated.

 

[sedgy34]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

I understand what you are saying and agree about normal voltage being above 240 but i wonder what would happen at peak times when the voltage may go down to 220V, would the unit still drop the voltage down by 20% or whatever it is set at?

TOPCAT in cinemas now 3D (thats where hes been )

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

Increasingly consumer appliances, computers, audio-visual equipment etc. are using Switch Mode Power Supplies (SMPS) because of their inherent wide input voltage and frequency range at high efficiency. This allows the manufacturer to have one design that suits all worldwide markets.
SMPS have feedback from the secondary (output) side to maintain regulation of the output voltage, this feedback is used to control the Mark/Space ratio, the output switching transistors on to off time. If the supply voltage is lowered, the switching transistor is switched on for a longer period to maintain the output voltage and more current is drawn from the supply to compensate. So no savings are made by the implementation of ‘supply voltage optimisation’ where the current using equipment is powered via SMPS.
A negative side effect of the higher Mark/Space ratio (lower Pulse Repetition Frequency) is the frequency of operation can be shifted into the audio range and cause annoying whine or squeals from effected SMPS. If this also happens to be a harmonic of the supply frequency a resonance can occur which makes this effect extremely irritating to the user.

 

[TonyGreen]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

Personally, none of them. But.....of the current batch, the MT unit seems to outperform teh others.

Voltis Home domestic voltage optimisation Marshall-Tufflex Energy Management

Voltis home is merely a fixed ratio transformer, not voltage stabilisation. For domestics Vphase gives you a steady 220V, but is a bit weedy on current.

By the way we supply Vphase for less than £170

 

[yoz7241]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

Increasingly consumer appliances, computers, audio-visual equipment etc. are using Switch Mode Power Supplies (SMPS) because of their inherent wide input voltage and frequency range at high efficiency. This allows the manufacturer to have one design that suits all worldwide markets.
SMPS have feedback from the secondary (output) side to maintain regulation of the output voltage, this feedback is used to control the Mark/Space ratio, the output switching transistors on to off time. If the supply voltage is lowered, the switching transistor is switched on for a longer period to maintain the output voltage and more current is drawn from the supply to compensate. So no savings are made by the implementation of ‘supply voltage optimisation’ where the current using equipment is powered via SMPS.
A negative side effect of the higher Mark/Space ratio (lower Pulse Repetition Frequency) is the frequency of operation can be shifted into the audio range and cause annoying whine or squeals from effected SMPS. If this also happens to be a harmonic of the supply frequency a resonance can occur which makes this effect extremely irritating to the user.

Umm, dont really understand what your saying???? So if im right, this is more to do with the commercial market????

 

[yoz7241]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

Yeah ive looked into both of them, think il use vphase and voltis, and let the customer decide wat they want. How much do you sell them for?

 

[Worcester]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

In a commercial environment these things can work. - We put complete monitoring systems in for a week before we are prepared to quote possible energy savings, ROI is then typically 4 - 5 years.

Most important item is what is the incoming voltage, we've had sites were the incoming was close to or less than 220V, in that case no savings will be seen at all, and in fact they could lower the voltage and cause other problems as mentioned above, both in the commercial and domestic environment.

Domestic is different from commercial - much greater resistive load energy usage so generally less opportunity for savings.

There's a reason the Voltis product is cheap ... one year warranty... Also on their recent stand they had a tumble dryer as a typical domestic aplliance mmmm....

Best product on the market comes with a 5 year warranty and a GAURANTEE of savings and is from one of the biggest suppliers of commercial VO. Also has the advantage for the customer that they can take it with them to their next property, no need for bypasses, split load boards etc...

Voltage Optimisation For Your Home - VO4HOME

They do work, and they do produce savings, under the right conditions.

 

[yoz7241]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

In a commercial environment these things can work. - We put complete monitoring systems in for a week before we are prepared to quote possible energy savings, ROI is then typically 4 - 5 years.

Most important item is what is the incoming voltage, we've had sites were the incoming was close to or less than 220V, in that case no savings will be seen at all, and in fact they could lower the voltage and cause other problems as mentioned above, both in the commercial and domestic environment.

Domestic is different from commercial - much greater resistive load energy usage so generally less opportunity for savings.

There's a reason the Voltis product is cheap ... one year warranty... Also on their recent stand they had a tumble dryer as a typical domestic aplliance mmmm....

Best product on the market comes with a 5 year warranty and a GAURANTEE of savings and is from one of the biggest suppliers of commercial VO. Also has the advantage for the customer that they can take it with them to their next property, no need for bypasses, split load boards etc...

Voltage Optimisation For Your Home - VO4HOME

They do work, and they do produce savings, under the right conditions.

Yeah im pretty sure i had a quote from these afew months ago and they where the most expensive, so ROI is gona be longer. I have looked into them thou, it looks like a portable fridge so doesnt really look the part either!!! lol

 

[infinity]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

That is correct, but do you need your lights glowing at their maximum to be able to see, or can you still see fine if they are working at the lower end of the rated voltage?

Then pay £10 for a dimmer switch..

 

[DomB]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

I installed one on my house. Before vPhase I was averaging 8.89kWh a day. Now I'm on 6.88.

To be honest I installed it on all circuits except my (cursed) electric underfloor heating. I don't have a hot water cylinder. I've not noticed the kettle take significantly longer. And my wife's cakes are the same as ever, sigh.

p.s. and the I've not noticed any difference on the lights

 

[Worcester]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

@DomB thanks for your input. What's your specific, measured incoming voltage to the vPhase unit, i.e. meter side? and assuming you costed it as though you had sold it to a client, how long do you think it will be before payback?

 

[DomB]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

So it was measured at 244.5V before vPhase and 220V after.

Profile-wise: We run one fridge and two freezers, a set top box and I'd say there's one PC on most of the day. We're a family of 4 so quite a few washing loads etc.

Assuming 14p / kWh vPhase is saving us ~28p / day.

28p * 365 = £100 / annum.



Parts: I installed a garage Con Unit with tails - the easiest way to split out the circuit I wasn't vPhasing. Costs, inc the vPhase, were £200 ex VAT

Labour was one morning

I'd say it should be less than 4 years to payback. I like that the payback is within the 5 year warranty period.

I'm not sure why vPhase say to split the circuits out, if I'd kept the kitchen ring off then the payback might go beyond the warranty period. I think the bypass kicks in at ~4.5kW which we never really reach and any affect on the the toaster, kettle, oven etc is not noticeable

 

[Worcester]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

@DomB, that sounds about right for the ROI, commercial can be down to 3.5 - 4 years. Thoiugh of course the unites there are expected to last 30-50 years!

Of course your ROI hasn't taken into account fuel inflation, which will reduce the time Also the equipment atatched should be less prone to fail as it is being supplied with the correct voltage.

 

[jupestar]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

I'd love to understand more on these, but i think more people should before selling them... one of our clients had one fitted after the PV as his production dropped right off. Of course as the PV was effected we got the call out why's it not working as well anymore.

Me: "What's that between the Incoming and the phase Block?"
Client: "That's a voltage optimiser reduced the incoming to 220V, had it installed last week"

Another reason we don't offer a 10 year guarantee... wasted half a morning going to visit this......

 

[infinity]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

i saw the wiring diagram for the vphase, which showed the shower and water heater etc on one rccb and the other circuits such as lighting and power on another being fed via vphase.

But how do you do this and meet 17th regs putting all lighting and power on one rcd?

 

[whlphil]

Re: Thinking about going into domestic and commercial voltage optimisation, but not s

Never mind VO Voltage stabilisation is the future :smartass2: