Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians"

[highspark]

How can we put an end to this drivel? Why is there people out there unqualified and inexperienced bluffing their way into work. Taking work from fully qualified time served lads?Theres a couple in my area. Driving round in vans with schemes tatooed all over them. They look the biz - the outfit. But I know they are not electricians. They are chancers bluffing their way through. The 17th Edition minimum requirement to have a schemes backing...its a farce. The problem I have is the customers can't differenciate from a fully qualified. 17th edition, 2391, tech cert nvq3 electrician from a 17th edition short course idiot! It boils my blood

 

[DNS1]

peterdaniels,

Many of us would do an apprenticeship if we could but it's simply not possible.

Might be fine for a 17 year old living at home with mum and dad but for a guy in his 30s with a mortgage to pay and a family to support? No chance!

If this is such a big deal, maybe it's about time C&G brought in a qualification for those of us who just want to do domestic work and who have years of non-electrical domestic experience.

I'm a guy with an engineering degree and many years of experience bashing houses. When it comes to apprenticeships, am I really equal to a 16 year old who's never touched a tool in his life?

Sorry if I sound like I'm getting arsey, I'm just fed up with people ranting about non-apprenticeship electricians without stopping to ask what experience qualifications they have.

 

[Guest112]

perhaps a career change at 30 with people depending on you isn't the smartest move not atleast without some form of job security, not a dig but theres a reason you start young in a trade and i don't think i need to explain, think of it from the employers point of view...

 

[DNS1]

Are you saying that the electrical industry only wants 16 year olds who aren't intelligent enough to do A-levels and go to university? (which, lets face it, is what's currently happening)

 

[Guest112]

Are YOU saying that all 16 year olds who go into trades are dumb? I began my apprenticeship at 18 taking a pay cut to do it halving my income, I couldve stayed in school and gone then uni but these days its a waste of time,

I see your using your degree to its potential lol

just because you think your worthy because youve done some random nonsense irrellivent degree you think your better than an electrician? you think your too good to need to sit the core qualification? Well you stick to your DI(Y)ing and i think ill just crack on in my commercial/industrual environments with my stack of C&G quals to back me up

 

[Knobhead]

I started my apprenticeship at £8-00 a week. Had my parents not helped me I’d have never have finished it. My mates from school were earning four to five times that amount.

I don’t care about the domestic side, you will never take a 5 week crash course and go in to industrial. Not just the distribution but control and instrumentation have to be included.

The sooner it’s separated in to two trades the better. It was in the past.

I’m glad I’m out of it now!

I’ll admit I couldn’t wire a house now to current regs, (13[SUP]th[/SUP] or 14[SUP]th[/SUP] then yes) but give me 2 weeks study and I would be perfect.

I do have the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] for what it’s worth! Bog paper!


Sorry if I offend some people but I had to get this out of my system.

 

[UNG]

Many of us would do an apprenticeship if we could but it's simply not possible.

You obviously had a career path in mind when you carried on with your education to degree level

Might be fine for a 17 year old living at home with mum and dad but for a guy in his 30s with a mortgage to pay and a family to support? No chance!

Does that give you a right to expect the same respect that someone who has done all the qualifications and gained the on site experience and is an electrician

If this is such a big deal, maybe it's about time C&G brought in a qualification for those of us who just want to do domestic work and who have years of non-electrical domestic experience.

Well from what I am seeing they have as despite what their website says they seem to be turning a blind eye with regard to the 2391 course and allowing any TDoH to sit the course and exam

I'm a guy with an engineering degree and many years of experience bashing houses. When it comes to apprenticeships, am I really equal to a 16 year old who's never touched a tool in his life?

Just because you have a degree is that any reason to cast aspersions as to the ability of 16 year olds at 16 I was proficient at rebuilding engines and had 10 years experience of vehicle repairs, I know a 7 year old who with a bit of supervision is good at DIY plumbing including soldering joints and in years to come will make a good tradesman should he choose too, so I think you make to many assumptions including your own ability as people will always believe they are better than what they are

Sorry if I sound like I'm getting arsey, I'm just fed up with people ranting about non-apprenticeship electricians without stopping to ask what experience qualifications they have.

I have no problem with sparks who have not done an apprenticeship the problem I have is people who need the bar lowering or think they are to good to waste their time getting properly qualified to earn the status of electrician, a 5 week course doesn't wash with me

Are you saying that the electrical industry only wants 16 year olds who aren't intelligent enough to do A-levels and go to university? (which, lets face it, is what's currently happening)

There are a lot of 16 year olds who haven't got the intelligence to go to university but do and usually study the mickey mouse degrees

I started my apprenticeship at £8-00 a week. Had my parents not helped me I’d have never have finished it. My mates from school were earning four to five times that amount.

Same here a few of us did apprenticeships and a few took job's in offices and banks

I do have the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] for what it’s worth! Bog paper!

Sorry if I offend some people but I had to get this out of my system.

The truth will always offend some people

 

[Engineer54]

I have to say I disagree as you seem to be oblivious to the fact that tom, dick and harry from every trade is damaging the trade as a whole.

Sure some of the fast entry schemes should be taken to court for mis selling but don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I know guys round my way, time served, 30+ years, who do cash, no certs, no notification, etc, etc, day in day out - are they the shining example of an "electrician" you seem to be speaking for?

I'm doing nothing of the sort!! There have always been this element in any trade, nothing you can really do to stop this going on. On the other hand at least these guy's know that there chancers. Whereas those that have done these quick fix courses haven't a clue what they are doing... These guy's are being officially recognised as being competent, by the very organisations that were put in place to police competency, which makes a complete mockery of the whole dammed system, ...full stop!!!

What is going on here, is that these new guy's expect the bar to be lowered, to allow them to be called ''qualified electricians'' which are certainly are not. I don't particularly blame these guy's either, they have been sold a duck, but that's no reason at all, to allow them to still think they are electricians, they are NOT!!
It really is as simple as that!!!

 

[Engineer54]

I started my apprenticeship at £8-00 a week. Had my parents not helped me I’d have never have finished it. My mates from school were earning four to five times that amount.

I don’t care about the domestic side, you will never take a 5 week crash course and go in to industrial. Not just the distribution but control and instrumentation have to be included.

The sooner it’s separated in to two trades the better. It was in the past.

I’m glad I’m out of it now!

I’ll admit I couldn't wire a house now to current regs, (13[SUP]thor[/SUP] 14[SUP]Th[/SUP] then yes) but give me 2 weeks study and I would be perfect.

I do have the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] for what it’s worth! Bog paper!


Sorry if I offend some people but I had to get this out of my system.

You in all honesty would only require a few pointers here and there Tony, you wouldn't need 2 weeks of study...lol!!! You have more than enough required electrical knowledge, to design, install, and certainly test a domestic installation, let alone capable of fault finding!! .....Errr, so long as you don't try employing a ''thumper'' to find a hidden faulty cable in the house/flat!! lol!!!!

 

[UNG]

I’ll admit I couldn’t wire a house now to current regs, (13[SUP]th[/SUP] or 14[SUP]th[/SUP] then yes) but give me 2 weeks study and I would be perfect.

It doesn't take much longer to become a domestic installer are you sure you would need that long

 

[AP Electrical]

Just to play devil's advocate, how many Electrical Trainee are prosecuted each year for sub standard work ?, how many are imprisoned for killing someone through shoddy work ?, if this problem was really that bad there'd be new legislation brought in for sure.
Who cares what they call themselve's Di, sparks etc as far as this country is concerned there qualified to perform the task at hand - domestic installs, if the customer gives the job to them - tuff luck, if they mess it up then I'm sure the customer wont employ them again.

Whats happening in this industry has been going on in the construction industry for years, and before anyone says 'yeah but leccy kills' so does not correctly supporting a two storey extension properly or missing a fire break.

You could be working in an office today -quit- open a construction company and start bidding on £40'000 projects tommorow, having never looked at a hammer.

If your good at what you do you'll keep working, if your work is shoddy you wont.

Regards Ap

 

[mickys86]

Someone mentioned earlier that at 30 yes old with mortgage it isn't possible to do an apprenticeship???

Well I'm not 30, I'm 28. I had a well paid job that I purely didn't like. Unsociable hours didn't help. Work every weekend and normally 5am start until 7-8pm finish. I was in rented accommodation which isn't cheap.

I got a job which was 5 days a week, including weekends, I went to college one day a week, and I went out (unpaid) with an electrician one day a week.

I did two years of that. And now I'm half way through my third year. I work 4 days with an electrician, one day at college and I also work Saturday and Sunday to bring my wages up.

I never knew about the Electrical Trainee courses when I started, and I'm glad I never. I doubt I would've fell for the 'become an electrician in 5 weeks' but who knows.one thin is for sure, with hard work it can be done so don't say it can't

 

[Engineer54]

Just to play devil's advocate, how many Electrical Trainee are prosecuted each year for sub standard work ?, how many are imprisoned for killing someone through shoddy work ?, if this problem was really that bad there'd be new legislation brought in for sure.
Who cares what they call themselves Di, sparks etc as far as this country is concerned there qualified to perform the task at hand - domestic installs, if the customer gives the job to them - tuff luck, if they mess it up then I'm sure the customer wont employ them again.

Whats happening in this industry has been going on in the construction industry for years, and before anyone says 'yeah but leccy kills' so does not correctly supporting a two storey extension properly or missing a fire break.

You could be working in an office today -quit- open a construction company and start bidding on £40'000 projects tomorrow, having never looked at a hammer.

If your good at what you do you'll keep working, if your work is shoddy you wont.

Regards Ap

No Wonder the electrical industry is going down the pan, with attitudes like this!!

 

[AP Electrical]

No Wonder the electrical industry is going down the pan, with attitudes like this!!

Nothing to do with attitude. Its a fact, and how is an whole industry going down the pan? what I highlighted doesnt affect industrial or even commercial electrical work, all your doing is going over the same old ground with nothing new to add, is your aim just to get to 50 pages maybe?.

Kind Regards AP

 

[chelwood]

It isnt just our trade,its everywhere.all i seem to do now is courses which thankfully are paid by my employer but its all theory and no practice.i do not blame anyone going for the cheapest price thats life but you have to be gas safe so why not spark safe

 

[Engineer54]

Nothing to do with attitude. Its a fact, and how is an whole industry going down the pan? what I highlighted does not affect industrial or even commercial electrical work, all your doing is going over the same old ground with nothing new to add, is your aim just to get to 50 pages maybe?.

Kind Regards AP

It has Everything to do with Attitudes!!

You mean to say after all these pages on this thread, you can't see how under trained, with no experienced guy's are NOT part of the problem with the ongoing demise of the electrical industry??
We have to go over and over things i'm afraid, just to make sure that the quick fix back door guy's are fully aware that they aren't and never will be Qualified electricians, without extensive ongoing electrical training and holders of AM2 and NVQs to prove minimal work experience.

Unfortunately the Rot always has to start somewhere, it just so happens it's started in the domestic sector, and is quickly spreading to the commercial side with the onset of deskilling!! The industrial sector has already been hit, with short sighted company accountants abandoning apprenticeship training, and relying on outside contractors for ongoing maintenance and installation work, that know little to nothing on the plant they are working on....

You, ...just have to be a Electrical Trainee boy!!!