Vphase units

[UNG]

Didn't the DNO's in the UK already drop their nominal voltage from 240 to 230 for this reason?

And I thought it was for european harmonisation

As I find regularly the quoted voltage may have dropped but the reality is still the same

 

[Mark_Burgess]

And I thought it was for european harmonisation

As I find regularly the quoted voltage may have dropped but the reality is still the same

I agree, as I have not measured lower than 243v over the last year.

 

[Engineer54]

From what I've found out so far the VO4Home is basically a variable transformer that you set to reduce the voltage by a set amount, seems to be in 6v options. The VoltisHome is similar but part automatic (however, you have to test the incoming voltage first as they have 2 options depending on your incoming voltage). The Vphase uses 'anti-phase' voltage to maintain 220v which I am told works similar to noise reducing headphones!
I have only got the sales information from my supplier and briefly looked at the websites so not very 'Technical' I'm afraid, but all have helplines, just haven't had chance to ring yet.

You have been seeing dismissive remarks on ALL the forum you have visited for a very good reason, domestically they are a waste of the house owners time and money!!

No-one as far as i have seen, have knocked the commercial units, which are a whole different ball game. Domestic units (vphase) are limited to 16A max and then go into by-pass and doing nothing to save energy/money. Commercial units will be sized to the type and size of loads they will be connected too, they are also far more costly than the domestic units too.

As for you saying that we, as sceptics haven't given reasons for being dismissive of the domestic vphase unit, who are you kidding?? Only yourself as far as i can see!! Very valid reasons have been put forward in every thread i've ever seen on any forum!!!

If you think that you know better than all these contributors, many of which are more than technically quallified to make those comments, then go ahead and waste your money. We would all love to hear of your fantastic savings after the first year. Except you won't be making any savings in real terms, for at least 5 years. But we'd still like to hear of these personal savings you make....

 

[poppypiesdad]

Silly question's then i'll run for cover ,

1/WHY DONT THE MAKE A BIGGER UNIT THAN 16a, would that not solve some problems
2/ COULD YOU NOT FIT MORE THAN ONE UNIT
3/ Just fit led/cfl's lights and switch off unessesary appliances

Im off to my bunker with a candle

Jamie

 

[Engineer54]

Didn't the DNO's in the UK already drop their nominal voltage from 240 to 230 for this reason?

Haha, .... it's a make believe,or virtual voltage they have in the UK now, the same as it is in Europe too. For some convoluted reason, the powers that be decided that Europe should also have a single voltage so they decided, ...on paper anyway to knock 10 volts off of UK's 240V (415/240) and added 10 volts to Europe 220v (220/380)?? So now, even though the voltages remain the same as they always were, we have this virtual or make-believe nominal voltage accross Europe of 230V (400/230)

 

[Engineer54]

Silly question's then i'll run for cover ,

1/WHY DONT THE MAKE A BIGGER UNIT THAN 16a, would that not solve some problems
2/ COULD YOU NOT FIT MORE THAN ONE UNIT
3/ Just fit led/cfl's lights and switch off unessesary appliances

Im off to my bunker with a candle

Jamie

Run for cover you might ...lol!!!

1/.... Sure that can make bigger but it comes with a bigger cost too!!

2/.... Sure you can fit 2 unit's too, at twice the cost again, (wonder how long that will take before pay-back?

3/.... Your best selection/solution, ...save your money and put it to better uses!! lol!!

 

[poppypiesdad]

Damm anyone got a light my candle's went out

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Silly question's then i'll run for cover ,

1/WHY DONT THE MAKE A BIGGER UNIT THAN 16a, would that not solve some problems
2/ COULD YOU NOT FIT MORE THAN ONE UNIT
3/ Just fit led/cfl's lights and switch off unessesary appliances

Im off to my bunker with a candle

Jamie

Hi Jamie, You might like to check out Voltis, marketed through Marshall Tufflex, this unit has a 60A rating before entering bypass mode. On the face of it a better compromise system, but I'll leave you and others on here to comment whether this is a good solution or not. I'm keeping my powder dry for a later date when Marshall Tufflex have answered my specific questions about the Voltis Unit.

http://www.marshalltufflexenergy.com/voltishome/

 

[Big n Daft]

Gordon, P Clarke,
Any chance you can bestow us with your background to the obvious knowledge you have to see the common sense behind these units. Just wondered becuase so many of here must be missing the point with our years of knowledge of electrickery.

 

[Gordon0707]

Big n Daft
Hope this helps
30 years with Seeboard/EDF the last 12 (I think) on industrial, but including energy marketing, contracting and installation inspection. Followed by a brief spell in electrical wholesale, I have gone back 'on the tools', persuaded by my cousin to take on his project work at a large UK holiday group, which he is looking to roll out voltage optimisation, both commercial and domestic, hence my original interest in the forum for the domestic. I have passed on the details and comments in this and other forums and he assures me he has looked and is still determined to go ahead following advice from his DNO. He tells me the figures he has been given, although not guaranteed, show combined payback in just over 1.5 years, the commercial unit for the main buildings is 1.1 year and the 250 chalets etc 3.2yrs. Additional savings expected in lamp maintenance etc. (Incidentally his DNO which I beleive is SSE recommended Vphase)
So that's me!

 

[Engineer54]

Big n Daft
Hope this helps
30 years with Seeboard/EDF the last 12 (I think) on industrial, but including energy marketing, contracting and installation inspection. Followed by a brief spell in electrical wholesale, I have gone back 'on the tools', persuaded by my cousin to take on his project work at a large UK holiday group, which he is looking to roll out voltage optimisation, both commercial and domestic, hence my original interest in the forum for the domestic. I have passed on the details and comments in this and other forums and he assures me he has looked and is still determined to go ahead following advice from his DNO. He tells me the figures he has been given, although not guaranteed, show combined payback in just over 1.5 years, the commercial unit for the main buildings is 1.1 year and the 250 chalets etc 3.2yrs. Additional savings expected in lamp maintenance etc. (Incidentally his DNO which I beleive is SSE recommended Vphase)
So that's me!

I'm gobsmacked!! All i can say is that there must be an awful lot of gullible people around if they are going to take energy/money saving figures on this scale without minimal guarantee's from the manufactures. Those payback periods seem way out, unless he's getting some big discounts on these units, and getting you to install them all on your salary. Why is it these people keep quoting lamp savings?? All your doing is reducing lamp output, and on Flu's of any type etc, you could well be saving nothing, at reduced voltages, may even be increasing consumption...

Assumptions are worthless and can be very costly when wrong...

If that is correct, ...in that DNO companies are advising house holders to go the vphase/or similar route to energy saving, ....Best not to take it... instead get yourself one of there smart meters so you can do your own energy saving by switching off what you don't need to be on.

 

[Marvo]

I agree, as I have not measured lower than 243v over the last year.

....they decided, ...on paper anyway to knock 10 volts off of UK's 240V (415/240) and added 10 volts to Europe 220v (220/380)?? So now, even though the voltages remain the same as they always were, we have this virtual or make-believe nominal voltage accross Europe of 230V (400/230)

I must have been absent the day they covered virtual voltages at college.

So they didn't actually drop the voltage at all......that's strange.

Then if a domestic premises has a voltage (an actual voltage not a virtual one ) of 240v and one of these optimiser units can drop it say to 220, if it's installed to supply circuits with mixed loads rather than pure heating appliances then in theory it could save maybe up to 10% of the energy consumed on those particular circuits.

If I take my own domestic installation and I used one to supply say the pool and irrigation pumps, the ceiling fan circuit that supplies all the rooms, my home office with computers/printers etc and the lighting circuits, why would it not save me up to 10% of that consumption?

 

[spark 68]

Hi Marvo,

The tolerances (not the actual supply voltages) were changed from 1st Jan 1995 to harmonise with Europe, ie. nominal supply = 230V and are as follows:

pre 1995 = Nom. 240V, +6%/-6% = 225.6V to 254.4V

From 1st Jan
1995 = Nom. 230V,+10%/-6% = 216.2V to 253.0V

As you can see from above, this was a 'paper exercise' only, ie. the supply Voltage was not changed, only the tolerances.

 

[Big n Daft]

Eng54,
I'm with you on this one big style.
Gordon,
The flack that will come from fitting these units WHEN it doesnt work is going to fun. The only reasoning behind them that could work is that all the appliances are designed to work at 230v, if you think that this will work in a modern home with all its electronic equipment then crack on.
I went to Vphase and was initially taken in, then I did some maths. Whatever anybody says the laws of physics are set in stone until proven wrong. The makers of these domestic regulators are very clever people, they seem to change the laws of physics to suit themselves.
How somebody of your knowledge is going to fit these things and get yourself in the firing line is beyond me.
Still thats my last words on these wonders of modern science.
Engy54,
Dont waste you time on this, you could be imparting your knowledge on other people.

 

[Engineer54]

I must have been absent the day they covered virtual voltages at college.

So they didn't actually drop the voltage at all......that's strange.

Then if a domestic premises has a voltage (an actual voltage not a virtual one ) of 240v and one of these optimiser units can drop it say to 220, if it's installed to supply circuits with mixed loads rather than pure heating appliances then in theory it could save maybe up to 10% of the energy consumed on those particular circuits.

If I take my own domestic installation and I used one to supply say the pool and irrigation pumps, the ceiling fan circuit that supplies all the rooms, my home office with computers/printers etc and the lighting circuits, why would it not save me up to 10% of that consumption?

I guess nothing to stop you saving a bit of cash, if all those loads are motor based. The lighting side of things will at the very best will just Dim the lamps, which is a bit pointless to me. Makes a bit of a mockery of ensuring VD calculations to lighting circuits are adhered too at time of installation!! lol!! The same with any purely resistive heating loads, you won't save anything, and things will just take longer to reach temperature etc...

I don't know about you, but if a piece of equipment has been made/manufactured to work at a voltage, with say a plus 10 % and minus of 6% tolerance (the tolerance is normally lower on reduced voltage) is it's life expectancy going to be affected by supplying that equipment beyond/outside that tolerance?? I'm not sure they can state, that such appliances will work more efficiently outside of stated manufacturers tolerances either!! I'd like to hear what the various appliance manufacturers have to say, about running there goods outside of there stated tolerances, what's the betting they would come back with guarantees being voided. ..lol!!!

Apart from anything else, the unit needs to be able to handle decent loading, before going into by-pass or whatever, canceling out any saving. You pays your money and take your chances. ..lol!!