2391 is it really fair?

[Guest55]

But i'm going to move the discussion onto a new phase if i may.

So , until recently , the 2391 was considered the gold standard for sparks - it sorted the pro's from the chancers.
But what now if Electrical Trainee's can get the qual just by swotting up on past papers and the student pass level is creeping up to 40 odd % ?

Someone mentioned that the new 2396 design qual could now set the bar to the high level formerly occupied by the 2391.
I agree with this sentiment / idea.
Its a million miles away from domestic work in its course content and can't be passed purely by memorising old exam papers.
The course project can only be completed with sound understanding of commercial installation principles and the maths / equations are much more complex , incorporating elements such as adiabatic , mcb pre-arc / energy let through factors , large scale diversity assessments and so on.

Please discuss further those with opinions.............

 

[trev]

I think anything above L3 is really going to start to sort the wheat from the chaff, you can go down the design route or the courses that will eventually lead you to a degree

 

[electrosparks]

What happened to link to dropbox was just about to download and now seems to of disappeared

 

[Silly Sausage]

I might have to do this 2396 (D&V) because the barstewards lost my 2400 project at the time. Got the exam.
Sure I read yesterday on here, someone has taken it already and it's quite harder now :-( plus the cash...

 

[Guest55]

I might have to do this 2396 (D&V) because the barstewards lost my 2400 project at the time. Got the exam.
Sure I read yesterday on here, someone has taken it already and it's quite harder now :-( plus the cash...

My understanding of the 2396 design course from discussions on the IET forum is that its no more difficult than the old 2400 even though the new course is a level 4 qualification.
And further good news is that the inspection and testing elements that were in the the 2400 have been removed.
Also worth a mention is that you can only sign up to do the new 2396 course if you already have both 17th regs and 2391 inspect & test.
But as you mention , its quite expensive at around £700 and not many venues are running the course.
I hope to do it myself this year but its not guarranteed.

 

[electrosparks]

What happened to link to dropbox was just about to download and now seems to of disappeared

 

[DaveyD]

Also worth a mention is that you can only sign up to do the new 2396 course if you already have both 17th regs and 2391 inspect & test.

Is it this one? http://www.cityandguilds.com/docume...-L4A-DV-Electrical-Installations-QHB-v1.1.pdf

Before undertaking this qualification candidates should seriously consider undertaking the Level 3 Award in Initial Verification and Certification of Electrical Installations (2394) and/or Level 3 Award in the Periodic Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations (2395) as well as obtaining industry experience. It is also strongly recommended that candidates have achieved either the City & Guilds Certificate in the Requirements for Electrical Installations (BS7671) (2382) or similar qualifications where candidates have demonstrated knowledge and understanding of the 17th edition in order to ensure they have every opportunity of achieving this qualification

 

[Guest55]

Yep , thats the fella.
Entry requirements may vary for each training provider , but most i've seen only want experienced sparks to sign up for it.

 

[LangElect]

I have done both and found 2391 a quite a bit harder than the Design Exam - but then from what I remember, the Design Exam has a lot of the same content as 2391, which is prob why it seemed easier. I think of all the C&G Exams I have done, the 2391 is the only one I felt really proud of - its a good old fashioned exam that really does test your knowledge and ability to think situations through. I had heard that the pass rate for 2391 was low - I guess I was lucky in that the school I went to averaged about a 90% pass rate for the exam - don;t think I have ever worked so hard though!

 

[stephanjs]

Hi
On questions 6 do they require all working out as its only a 3 mark question e.g

Rt = 1/r1 + 1/R2 +1/R3
Rt = 1/120 + 1/80 + 1/60
Rt = 0.008 + 0.0125 + 0.0166
Rt = 1/0.0371
Rt = 26.95 ohms

Or is there a shortened method which would achieved the same mark

Formula should be 1/rt=1/r1+1/r2+1/r3

The way the answers are marked, I am informed, is that if you put the wrong formula down, what ever you put down after, even if it is correct, you will not get any marks for it.

 

[Silly Sausage]

My understanding of the 2396 design course from discussions on the IET forum is that its no more difficult than the old 2400 even though the new course is a level 4 qualification.
And further good news is that the inspection and testing elements that were in the the 2400 have been removed.
Also worth a mention is that you can only sign up to do the new 2396 course if you already have both 17th regs and 2391 inspect & test.
But as you mention , its quite expensive at around £700 and not many venues are running the course.
I hope to do it myself this year but its not guarranteed.

If the new version is at the same level as the 2400, I reckon I need to check out if I can just redo the project somewhere. NO WAY am I shelling out 700 beer tokens!

 

[trev]

Formula should be 1/rt=1/r1+1/r2+1/r3

The way the answers are marked, I am informed, is that if you put the wrong formula down, what ever you put down after, even if it is correct, you will not get any marks for it.

Not strictly true mate, you can put down a total load of nonsense but if you get the right answer you will get 1 mark. The way it works is if the question is worth say 5 marks you get 1 for each stage of the calculation

 

[spark 68]

To be honest Trev, I thought it was the otherway, in so long as you got the formula correct, and all of the steps of the working out, then you did not need to get the correct final answer to get the marks, but I would stand to be corrected.

 

[stephanjs]

Not strictly true mate, you can put down a total load of nonsense but if you get the right answer you will get 1 mark. The way it works is if the question is worth say 5 marks you get 1 for each stage of the calculation

Hi Trev. the guidance for examiners marking the 2391 scripts is the answer to the questions have to be based on the correct assumptions. Strictly if you start off wrong then anything following which may be correct is ignored in the answer. this is one reason why it has such a low rate of pass.
You are welcome to speak to an EV or under the new term QC to confirm this.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Depends on the way the Q is worded.
If it says 'State' or similar, you're workings are irrelevant.
If it says 'Prove' or show your workings, then you get marks for correct formulae etc even if the final answer is wrong.