3 phase domestic supply

[John-SJW]

I watched this vid on Youtube. Interesting. They have 3 phase supplies. Does anyone know the cost of upgrading from a single to a 3 phase domestic supply?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7wxNtrorQ&lc=UgyPTN2d89tBByfm4Dx4AaABAg.9CrcYe7x50b9CsC6DnPJKw

 

[DPG]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make?

People will use more electricity for cooking, so household usage will go up with that as well as EV charging.

 

[Zerax]

Will EV's ever be as convenient as an ICE vehicle remains to be seen to fill a tank with fuel takes around 5 minutes will we be able to "refuel" a battery in 5 minutes in years to come without degrading it's performance and longevity too much

An interesting question...

I've been learning alot recently about EVs... and in particular EV Vans. One of the things that I've learnt is that owning and using an EV can be more convenient than an ICE vehicle. It's just a different sort of convenient, a different way of doing things... it's mostly about change. And change is notoriously difficult for us mere humans. Before I'm shot down in flames... I want to be clear that I don't think they work for everyone right now... but for several million people, they do.

So for me, right now with a diesel van... once every couple of weeks, when the fuel light comes on, I'll have to go off somewhere to buy diesel. It takes me maybe 15 mins all in... travelling to it, filling, paying and travelling back. Done that for years... I'm used to it... it's routine.

With an EV... I'd plug it in when I got home (I can park outside my own front door). In the morning, unplug it, hang the cable up and drive off. Not every day... but every other one say. It would become routine in the same way that driving off to find diesel is now.

With an EV though there's an added bonus... I could also pre-heat the van in the morning... so it's toasty warm when I got in... no more de-icing the windows. Is that more of less convenient ?

 

[nicebutdim]

I tend to have a long wait to get to a pump, then a long wait to pay. I would say half an hour. Some EVs will soon recharge the lot in 15 mins. But as it will not be fully flat more like 5 to 10 mins. If charged at home, it fills the tank overnight while in bed.

.....

I have followed the progress of zero emissions cars for many years. I do analysis, being a graduate engineer. That is how we assess matters.

.....

The battery technology is being pushed by EVs. The more they improve, the better for homes.


This thread started off regarding supplies, home batteries, etc, I never pushed it over to an EV thread, in fact attempting to get it on track.

I'm genuinely stunned by the idea of taking 30 minutes to refuel a car and this highlights another gulf between London and the rest of the UK. There may be one or two occasions per year when I can't drive straight to a pump and those occasions only require a wait of 1-2 minutes.

The very idea of zero emissions is a red herring and one that seems to obsess many people. I'm very much in favour of reducing our use of resources and the pollutants we create, but we should not kid ourselves about EVs, simply because no fumes are released from an exhaust pipe.

I do fully agree that battery technology has seen a huge increase in R&D due to the advent of EVs. We are yet seeing the fruits of those investments, with current batteries not being far removed from early Lithium-ion cells, but that will undoubtedly change in the near future.

One the last point; regarding this thread running off at a tangent, please don't be so modest. If I could draw you attention to posts 3, 7 and 9, you first moved to gas, then the Tesla Powerwall and finally launched straight in to the subject of EVs - previously EVs had been mentioned only in relation to additional loads on the UK grid. Others have merely followed your lead as thread creator.

 

[DPG]

An interesting question...

I've been learning alot recently about EVs... and in particular EV Vans. One of the things that I've learnt is that owning and using an EV can be more convenient than an ICE vehicle. It's just a different sort of convenient, a different way of doing things... it's mostly about change. And change is notoriously difficult for us mere humans. Before I'm shot down in flames... I want to be clear that I don't think they work for everyone right now... but for several million people, they do.

So for me, right now with a diesel van... once every couple of weeks, when the fuel light comes on, I'll have to go off somewhere to buy diesel. It takes me maybe 15 mins all in... travelling to it, filling, paying and travelling back. Done that for years... I'm used to it... it's routine.

With an EV... I'd plug it in when I got home (I can park outside my own front door). In the morning, unplug it, hang the cable up and drive off. Not every day... but every other one say. It would become routine in the same way that driving off to find diesel is now.

With an EV though there's an added bonus... I could also pre-heat the van in the morning... so it's toasty warm when I got in... no more de-icing the windows. Is that more of less convenient ?

Agree with some of that, except the filling up with diesel. Don't drive 15 minutes to fill up and then go back home. Call at the petrol station on your way to somewhere else surely?. Top tip eh

 

[davesparks]

With an EV though there's an added bonus... I could also pre-heat the van in the morning... so it's toasty warm when I got in... no more de-icing the windows. Is that more of less convenient ?

That's not unique to EVs, there are various ways of achieving that in any vehicle.

I've got a webasto fuel burning heater on a timer plumbed in to the coolant system in my 20 year old landrover defender that gets the engine and cab up to temperature while I'm eating my breakfast.

Or you can fit what is basically a small immersion heater into your coolant system, plug it in on a timer and it will warm the engine block up so that you have instant heat and much easier starting.

 

[Mike Johnson]

With an EV though there's an added bonus... I could also pre-heat the van in the morning... so it's toasty warm when I got in... no more de-icing the windows. Is that more of less convenient ?

As above I have the facility to start my car from my iPhone from inside the house to warm it up before I need it.

 

[Zerax]

With an EV though there's an added bonus... I could also pre-heat the van in the morning... so it's toasty warm when I got in... no more de-icing the windows. Is that more of less convenient ?

I forgot the caveat (some people are so picky !)... obviously some ICE vehicles can do this already, but they are rare or you have to install them as a non-standard upgrade.

I know that some VW Californias have 2 diesel heaters... a 'parking heater' and an engine pre-heater. This feature is generally regarded as a big selling point for them, whilst it's nearly always standard on EVs. (I'm not saying ALL, as I haven't investigated them all)

 

[John-SJW]

The very idea of zero emissions is a red herring

zero emission at the point of use is not a red herring at all. It is coming. About three years ago the transport minister abandoned the large scale electrification project, because zero emission battery and hydrogen fuel cell trains can fill the bill

I do fully agree that battery technology has seen a huge increase in R&D due to the advent of EVs. We are yet seeing the fruits of those investments

I gave the Tesla one million charges battery to be announced within days.

I did not labour the point of EVs on this thread.
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So did you answer the question about pumps/charge point numbers?

Did you do a Google? I gave links to EV chargers outnumbering petrol pumps. That is not counting home charging either, which are being installed every day, with also public chargers being fitted every day.
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Or you can fit what is basically a small immersion heater into your coolant system, plug it in on a timer and it will warm the engine block up so that you have instant heat and much easier starting.

They are decades old. Fitted by dealers in Canada with supermarkets having plug in points to keep the engine warm.
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This EV car has a range of 360 miles. They swap out your battery in 3 minutes, if you want - an instant 360 miles range. China is the largest maker of EVs, and the largest user with half of the EVs in the world. They make 99% of EV buses.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw

 

[mattg4321]

How many vehicles can all the petrol pumps in the U.K. service per hour vs how many vehicles can all the EV chargers service per hour. That’s the only fair comparison. I think we all know the answer.

Can’t believe you have to wait so long for petrol/diesel. I nip in on my way somewhere. It would be highly unusual for me to not be in and out in under 5 minutes.

 

[John-SJW]

How many vehicles can all the petrol pumps in the U.K. service per hour vs how many vehicles can all the EV chargers service per hour. That’s the only fair comparison. I think we all know the answer.

How come you find it so difficult to understand something so simple?

 

[westward10]

How come you find it so difficult to understand something so simple?

I think you need to lose your arrogance and respond to posts in a respectful manner or this thread will be stopped.

 

[UNG]

I tend to have a long wait to get to a pump, then a long wait to pay. I would say half an hour.

Even at the height of the fuel strikes it never took me that long to fill up. This sounds like an over exaggeration in order to try and make a point

Some EVs will soon recharge the lot in 15 mins. But as it will not be fully flat more like 5 to 10 mins. If charged at home, it fills the tank overnight while in bed.

Some EV's will soon recharge in 15 mins would you like to put a number on how many will recharge in 15mins and what infrastructure is needed for this to happen. EV's with larger battery capacities charged at home would need chargers of 7Kw or greater running for 10 hours or more to achieve a full charge overnight the household with 2 or more EV's will really struggle
Most if not all the superfast chargers will only work on vehicles with 900v batteries so the 15 minute charge is not available to all

I have followed the progress of zero emissions cars for many years. I do analysis, being a graduate engineer. That is how we assess matters. I have addressed all points put forward. Most points given are people just no knowing, with others reciting oil company propaganda and myths.

I have followed EV technology since the days of Chloride Silent Power and their sodium sulphur battery and yes I fully understand how the oil companies lobbied the US government to prevent legislation passing that would have favoured EV's that forced the closure of Silent Power by the German parent company and they mothballed the battery technology for future use
There is yet to be a true zero emission vehicle as the manufacture of the vehicle creates emissions that have to be taken into account
With regard to your analysis it's a pity you haven't analysed what you and others have posted and answered the questions asked without resorting to the propaganda videos previously posted
You seem to choose to insult the intelligence, knowledge and research capabilities of the members of this forum just because they don't want to conform to your view and look at the influencer videos that you have been taken in by

Most were answered in the links I gave. The links many never looked at but then typed complete nonsense thinking they knew all the answers. Many asked question which can be answered by a quick Google. Many dismissed the links rejecting the content, unable to accept that what they have been thinking for years is wrong.

You have quoted many pieces from the links you posted with most of what you have posted found to be utter tosh and lacking real world knowledge of the local DNO network and it's limitation

I have no interests in EVs, batteries, etc.

This thread started off regarding supplies, home batteries, etc, I never pushed it over to an EV thread, in fact attempting to get it on track. The battery technology is being pushed by EVs. The more they improve, the better for homes.

HMG is looking at banning the sale of new fossil fuel burning cars in ten years, bringing it forward 5 years. I never made it up, I gave the link.

You have driven this debate from the outset and peppered it with biased links and dubious information
It is not wholly true that battery technology is driven by the EV, PV and wind power and the limitations of excess electricity in the network is pushing the implementation of large scale storage batteries
And you repeat yourself again banning the sale of new fossil fueled vehicles in ten years does not prevent the use of them for the following 15 - 20 years, in case you missed it, it was main stream news a few months ago no link required

ASDA have a lot of chargers. The aim is to have a charger at every parking bay. Shop and get 10 miles free at the same time.

Asda have 432 charging points and 631 stores thats less than one per store yet in your analytical mind it adds up to a lot

There is a solar farm on the English-Welsh border at Deeside. The world's first solar school is just outside Liverpool - 1961. Solar PV panels are dropping in price like stones - see the Seba vid. It will be as cheap to have solar tiles as ordinary tiles. All roofs are solar roofs as the sun shines on them all. The economics clearly stack up looking at all the panels on top of commercial buildings.

Look at the link to the National Grid man. That solves your misgivings.

So the panels are dropping in price they are only a part of an installation what about the inverters, cabling and mounting hardware plus the labour to install it all

The National Grid man is one small part of the electricity distribution network he does not solve any misgivings READ THE PAST POSTS IN THIS THREAD AND ANALYSE WHAT HAS BEEN SAID

zero emission at the point of use is not a red herring at all. It is coming. About three years ago the transport minister abandoned the large scale electrification project, because zero emission battery and hydrogen fuel cell trains can fill the bill

I gave the Tesla one million charges battery to be announced within days.

Zero emissions at point of use is a red herring it uses tyres, windscreen wipers and other consumable items during the course of use, repurposing old EV batteries only delays the batteries ultimate disposal and deflects the associated emissions from the EV it started it's life in

The hydrogen debate isn't as clear cut as it might be with the carbon footprint of large scale hydrogen production possibly being an issue that has to be addressed

I did not labour the point of EVs on this thread.

So if it wasn't you who was it then

Did you do a Google? I gave links to EV chargers outnumbering petrol pumps. That is not counting home charging either, which are being installed every day, with also public chargers being fitted every day.

Earlier in this thread you quoted EV points outnumbering PETROL STATIONS which is a very different statistic to the number of PETROL PUMPS
And we are still waiting for the answer from you and I don't want another google it response so answer the question you must of analysed this information
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How come you find it so difficult to understand something so simple?

It is far from a simple subject in fact it is quite complex once you dig into it and start crunching the numbers
The electricity production alone to drive this revolution will change as the demand profile that has worked for many years changes, overnight off peak electricity will no longer be off peak as everyone plugs in their EV. The resilience of the power stations and grid will tested to it's limits accommodating the peaks and troughs of generation and demand

 

[John-SJW]

I think you need to lose your arrogance and respond to posts in a respectful manner or this thread will be stopped.

I posted the details with links, yet a raft of posts come back asking the same question, as if what I wrote was false, making it up or exaggerating. This was not the fist time I directed people back to the links.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I forgot the caveat (some people are so picky !)... obviously some ICE vehicles can do this already, but they are rare or you have to install them as a non-standard upgrade.

It's an option on all BMW's and included if you have the business option fitted, most 5 series are bought as a company car and have this option fitted, so not rare at all IMO, and hereby lies the problem, all of your post are only your opinion most not backed up with facts, just manufacturers propaganda, this Thread has strayed so far away from it's original intent it is now far too confrontational, time to close it I think.

 

[John-SJW]

Even at the height of the fuel strikes it never took me that long to fill up. This sounds like an over exaggeration in order to try and make a point

The Tesco filling station after I shop.

If you had followed the thread, Some EV's will soon recharge in 15 mins. Look up the new Tesla battery to be announced within days. I gave details. Many posted that such things never existed. They do. The fast chargers will come and come fast keeping pace with technology introduction. I gave the links to prove there are more EV chargers than petrol pumps. Anyone with half a brain can see EVs are coming in, in a big way, with chargers being installed everywhere, even in stores, people's drives, etc. There are four chargers outside my place.

The overall emissions of EVs from manufacture to running is far less than ICE cars. The important aspect is that there is zero emissions in urban areas, as 90% of us live in urban areas, they matter and matter big time. I notice no one picked up on that point. I wonder why.

I have not insulted the the intelligence of the members of this forum, as you are attempting to do towards me. Many need to understate matters and least look at the links before typing. I was obvious that many did not even look at links, but knew all the answers countering the points and links. The links are totally counter to what your mind is tuned to, then you come out with futile fighting with your back to the wall. The sign of failure is your ad hom attacks.

I was going rip you apart, which is very easy to do, but just could not be bothered. You are taken in by Big Oil propaganda. I noticed no one commented, causing selective amnesia, was that HMG may bring the ICE ban forward to ten years from now. I will not see EVs in my lifetime some were saying, only if your 90 that may be the case. Get used it, you will be driving an EV whether you like it or not, as you will not be able to buy petrol.

The whole country, and civilised world, is moving over to zero emissions transportation. The Luddites are like those you said Diesel trains would not replace steam.

This post by you was a clear insult and sneer towards me.
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time to close it I think.

Or maybe it is not going your way, so you want to stop the game and take your ball home.