ELECSA Certification Scheme A message to all Elecsa registered electricians!! A must read!!

[Danspark]

in all fairnes to you dan.....not...as yet...
my avatar refers to my interest in early aviation, early aircraft, engines, construction methods and the technology around at the time...(1905-1919).....
so fire away......if you like....lol..

I could take you up some time, lots of airfields in West Yorkshire to meet me at.

 

[TaffyDuck]

D Skelton

ELECSA is a competent person scheme for undertaking work within a domestic dwelling!


“I don't want is Elecsa telling my customers that I'm a 'Domestic Installer', because all that says to them is that I only carry out work in the domestic sector.” No it doesn’t. that is how you see it. Sorry D Skelton, You ARE a domestic installer. (you can still do work in the commercial and industrial sector, you simply haven't joined a voluptuary regulatory body ie: as a NICEIC's approved contractor) That is why you signed up to ELECSA’s competent person scheme. You are very attached to to the approved contractor status that was given to you by the ELECSA. But now that you are on a list that has other accreditations for other electrical companies it makes sense that your approval by elecsa is not to be confused with an existing accreditation that you are NOT! anyways, why be attached to such a “made up name” by a company that you detest? why not try some other made up names, hows about; accepted contractor, agreed contractor, standard contractor, established contractor, confirmed contractor, acknowledged contractor, recognized contractor, sanctioned contractor agreed contractor...


*assumption made that a difference in opinion is ok? I know how passionate you can be

The keys to a successful business include how that business is perceived by its potential customers.

However you couch it, a potential customer looking at this register will look at the "grading" of electricians and assume that an Approved Contractor is a more highly qualified electrician than a Domestic Installer. This is often misleading in the extreme.

For instance a local building firm around here that appears near my business name on the postcode search employs one qualified electrician ( A good one too, I trained him) and use labourers to do the vast majority of their work. They appear as Approved Contractors. I, however who employ 1 fully qualified electrician in addition to myself and a 2nd year apprentice appear as a DI now, where as I would expect to appear as an Elecsa Approved Contractor.

That puts me at an immediate and unwarranted disadvantage.

It is all about perception. I am an Approved Contractor, NOT a DI which is a description that I refuse to acknowledge as it is a nonsense.

I am a qualified electrician who, at the moment at least, chooses to allow Elecsa to tell me what I already know, ie, that I am competent to carry out electrical work in peoples homes.

This register threatens the commercial/industrial side of my business as anyone looking at it will assume that I am not competent to carry out anything else other than domestic work.

And that is unacceptable.

 

[rattlehead85]

My point exactly and i am on the Approved contractors register with the NIC so why am i ok but others on rival schemes get punished who pay the same as me with the same experience.
The industry is corrupt even within the j.i.b their stance on grading of cards is just laughable at best.

 

[Danspark]

Hi Taffyduck,

The keys to a successful business include how that business is perceived by its potential customers.

Agreed! This is why I chose to join the NICEIC. They may not have known why, but the likes of Architects, local authorities etc were asking for NICEIC contractors

However you couch it, a potential customer looking at this register will look at the "grading" of electricians and assume that an Approved Contractor is a more highly qualified electrician than a Domestic Installer.

Agreed!

This is often misleading in the extreme.

is it? qualifications aside for the moment; should there not be some kind of separation from the two? on their website i see they refer to the contractors they have approved as operating a company within the the requirements of being a competent person. This is not just about qualifications, (not with the NICEIC anyway) in addition to qualifications do you not also have to have other items in place, I assume to protect the customer ordering the works, example: complaints procedures, health and safety policies etc (lame I know) so, they have approved you, you have all this in place and you have been approved for the competent person scheme. Right; heres where it gets messy, The NICEIC have a group of electricians (approved contractors) that have voluntarily joined in order to demonstrate to potential customers that they can safely work in other sectors (so can you, there is no Part P equivalent for the commercial or industrial sectors) in-fact my bloody mum can go and install emergency lights in the local cash and carry if she wanted to. Now if i wanted to go and work in that same cash and carry I am answerable to the NICEIC. on my next visit he will look at a list of different types of work I have done. when he sees that for the first time since enrolment he will say "no thats fine, but you must own a copy of the BS5266 if i don't then i have not complied with their code of practice and i'm told so. As far as i am aware ELECSA do not operate this time of scheme? Do i have to have extra qualifications... not sure, but my business must demonstrate that I have the up to date literature for reference for the said works. The same applies for petrol stations. I can work in a petrol station, can an a contractor approved with ELECSA?

That puts me at an immediate and unwarranted disadvantage.

Agreed

It is all about perception. I am an Approved Contractor, NOT a DI which is a description that I refuse to acknowledge as it is a nonsense.

sorry, this is exactly what D Skelton says and i have already said that i have a difference in opinion. (although i wont taunt you like i taunted him about it)

I am a qualified electrician who, at the moment at least, chooses to allow Elecsa to tell me what I already know, ie, that I am competent to carry out electrical work in peoples homes.
This register threatens the commercial/industrial side of my business as anyone looking at it will assume that I am not competent to carry out anything else other than domestic work.
And that is unacceptable.

Agreed, so you know what to do right, switch sides!

 

[D Skelton]

only if you are an approved contractor with domestic installation accreditation, other than that you are approved/acknowledged/recognised as a domestic installer.

domestic installer, domestic installer, domestic installer domestic installer, domestic installer

You're not getting it are you, you seem like an educated fella, that's why I'm really struggling to see how you can be so obtuse!

I AM AN APPROVED CONTRACTOR, look my business up on the Elecsa website if you like!!

I am APPROVED by them to self certify in domestic dwellings, that is an entirely different thing to being labled as a 'Domestic Installer', how many times do I have to say it!?!

The NIC are the ones who set up the Electrical Safety Register. It is the NIC and the NIC alone that is reffering to my business as a domestic installer!!! It is their made up phrase!

God I'm getting bored now!

 

[Simlec]

Danspark do you work for the Niceic sales team???
We all know what Niceic AC means!

 

[D Skelton]

I can work in a petrol station, can an a contractor approved with ELECSA?

Yes, they can, I can, and have!"How?" I hear you ask... Because it falls outside the scope of Part P. You don't have to be approved by anyone to do such work.Give up mate!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You're not getting it are you, you seem like an educated fella, that's why I'm really struggling to see how you can be so obtuse!

I AM AN APPROVED CONTRACTOR, look my business up on the Elecsa website if you like!!

I am APPROVED by them to self certify in domestic dwellings, that is an entirely different thing to being labled as a 'Domestic Installer', how many times do I have to say it!?!

The NIC are the ones who set up the Electrical Safety Register. It is the NIC and the NIC alone that is reffering to my business as a domestic installer!!! It is their made up phrase!

God I'm getting bored now!

it even says a such on the side of the van.....
`domestic installer`=NIC
`approved contractor`=elecsa

 

[markc123]

danspark.....i misunderstood you at first and appologised.

However, you're in a minority here, surely this is telling you something? I understand your passion about it and fair play for fighting your corner, when not everyone (if anyone) agree's.

The fact is the whole of the electrical 'network' if thats the correct phrase is corrupt, its about making money at the highest level - and the competent people on the ground, who go about doing the work to industry standards get buggered because mr.smith in his office has a brainwave.

There is pro's and con's to every argument, this however, from what i can see and if im wrong im wrong........is full of con's

 

[Geoffsd]

Can I try to get through?

The problem is that Elecsa Approved Contractors are presented as Domestic Installers by the register whereas NICEIC Approved Contractors are presented as Approved Contractors.

Saying that the answer to this is not to rectify the situation but to transfer to NICEIC is blackmail.

 

[Engineer54]

Originally Posted by Danspark
I can work in a petrol station, can an a contractor approved with ELECSA?


​

Yes, they can, I can, and have!"How?" I hear you ask... Because it falls outside the scope of Part P. You don't have to be approved by anyone to do such work.Give up mate!

​

I hope that both of you have an appropriate Ex certification, if any of this work you have carried out at a petrol station was within the forecourt area's or on the pumps control/protection installations?? ...lol!!!

 

[Danspark]

I hope that both of you have an appropriate Ex certification, if any of this work you have carried out at a petrol station was within the forecourt area's or on the pumps control/protection installations?? ...lol!!!

I was wrong. I can't! But D Skelton can

Yes, they can, I can, and have!"How?" I hear you ask... Because it falls outside the scope of Part P. You don't have to be approved by anyone to do such work.Give up mate!

Gonna give up in a mo' You have me at a disadvantage. (as an apporved contractor I have to have an “add on”. Under the provisions of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (EWR) and the Dangerous Substances & Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 (DSEAR), the site operator (licensee) has a legal obligation to ensure in choosing an electrical contractor that the contractor is fully conversant with the electrical section of the Blue Guide and BS.7671 (IEE Wiring Regulations). Been trained in the installation, maintenance and testing of electrical apparatus for use in potentially explosive atmospheres and is fully conversant with BS EN 6007914, ‘Electrical Installations in Hazardous Areas, I don’t even own “the Blue Book”. It would seem that as an approved contractor I might be the first choice of a site operator but i’m not sure that I wish to spend all that money on the training and books required. I believe the “Blue book” costs just shy of £200. Is that what you paid?

Ps. This is something I know nothing about! I can not work in a petrol station. Although the NICEIC could help me if i wanted but don't plan on doing so (the above was taken from the internet so not reliable)

 

[Danspark]

danspark.....i misunderstood you at first and appologised.

However, you're in a minority here, surely this is telling you something?

According to an NICEIC survey from 1500 contractors I am not in the minority 49% believe that they have seen improvements in the industry. (unless that wasn't what you were referring to)

perhaps you mean about the difference between elecsa's approved contractors and their clasification on domestic installer. in which case yes, and will agree to disagree.

 

[Simlec]

According to an NICEIC survey from 1500 contractors I am not in the minority 49% believe that they have seen improvements in the industry. (unless that wasn't what you were referring to)

No Dan its just the new breed of DIYers cant be bothered/lazy !

 

[Engineer54]

According to an NICEIC survey from 1500 contractors I am not in the minority 49% believe that they have seen improvements in the industry. (unless that wasn't what you were referring to)

perhaps you mean about the difference between elecsa's approved contractors and their clasification on domestic installer. in which case yes, and will agree to disagree.

My god, ...Do you still actually believe in Surveys?? Especially surveys carried out by the interested party themselves!! You really have fallen Hook, Line, and Sinker for the complete marketing drivel that the NICEIC spews out by the bucket load!! lol!!