consumer units

[trickyb]

Hi all realy silly question maybe. Doing consumer change on old consumer 3036 type! now if all test,s out right is it our job to fit rcd protected mcb,s or rcbo,s or indeed any rcd protection at all ! or is it down to what the customer wants to pay ? what are the rules on this? thanks ian

 

[Deleted member 26818]

ezzzekiel, if you disagree with something I post, wouldn't it be better to actually put forth your reasons in constructive discussion, rather than making these pointless comments?

 

[BillyTheSparks]

Spinlondon,
I agree with you on what the 7671 says in relation to the BS3036s, and that you dont need RCD protection at certain locations/instances.
But I was always taught that as soon as you change any part of the installation before and including the consumer unit, you have changed the installation. Therefore you are to carry the work out to the current regulations, and so you would need RCD protection on any circuit where the cables are not buried greater than 50mm.
And as mentioned will require RCD protection.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Billy, if you were to install a new circuit which requires RCD protection in an installation where there is a 3036 board, would you insist that the board be changed, or would you consider installing an RCD in a separate enclosure next to the existing board?

 

[BillyTheSparks]

I would do the latter, as it would still comply and all that.

But with all the domestics I've ever done the majority of the cables are close to the surface. So would you keep the old BS3036s in there original box (which could be wooden,) and fit a seperate enclosure for all the seperate RCDs/RCBOs that you would need to cover the circuits needing the protection?

So economically wouldn't work out cheaper/safer/easier to change the unit and fit a new board?

the OP doesn't say that they are installing a new circuit to the house, it says that they are changing the consumer unit

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I'm not suggesting that the 3036 board be retained and RCDs be placed in separate enclosures.
I'm suggesting that the board be changed, and the only circuits that require RCD protection in the CU are those for the bathroom.
Although some argue that even that is not required, as RCD protection could be provided by the use of an RCD FCU at or near the bathroom.
The lack of RCD protection elswhere can be noted under comments about the existing installation.
Your response to my question, indicates that you do not believe RCD protection has to be in the CU.

 

[ezzzekiel]

every consumer unit that has been replaced since the introduction of the 17th edition has been installed incorrectly and in future only circuits within special locations should be rcd protected,
rcd protection for socket outlets, mobile equipment outdoors, cables without metallic coverings, cables at depths of less than 50mm should in future be disregarded.

I THINK NOT.

 

[j.mawer]

So you are making bathroom comply (701.411.3.3) by having RCD
BUT
not making the sockets comply (411.3.3 i (Domestic not being skilled and at least some sockets being for general use)) and noting that the system already didn't comply with 411.3.3?

 

[keniff]

i dont get this? iv always though you Have to have an rcd if: its a special location, cable buried in the wall less than 50mm etc etc not only to protect the person at the outlet or accessory but for example nailing through a cable?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Another pointless post ezzzekiel.
As for providing socket-outlets with RCD protection, this can be provided by the use of RCD sockets.
The RCD protection does not have to be in the CU.
You are required to ensure that your work complies with BS7671, not that the existing installation complies.

 

[ezzzekiel]

if you install to the 17th then pretty much every circuit will require rcd protection, there are certain exceptions but to what point, some on here will always take to the exception and point to this reg or that reg however this is neither useful or helpfull and simply adds to confusion and long drawn out posts. Cover every circuit with rcd unless you have a specific reason not too or have a better understanding of the regulations and all will comply.

 

[ezzzekiel]

Another pointless post ezzzekiel.
As for providing socket-outlets with RCD protection, this can be provided by the use of RCD sockets.

yes you are correct you can, how much will this cost in comparison? ive grew tired of you now "spin" and wont bother to reply to any further posts by you, this forum is not about taking a difficult subject and making it harder its here to help and offer reasonable advise not to show how good you are at reading a book.

 

[Dave_]

yes 411.3.3

spin i see your point, however i dont see the point in posting it. it will just confuse people.....

 

[nickblake]

Er yes they are all circuits must be protected by an RCD if the cabling installed is less than 50mm if you are doing an upgrade you have to comply with the regulations and there are not many houses that will meet that requirement as its almost impossable to achive and youll find it in your check list on your test sheets "additional protection of a 30ma RCD for cables in concealed wall where the premisis not under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person" , thats every domestic premisis in the country unless we have to provide a free spark with a CU upgrade

 

[keniff]

yeah never heard of not putting everything on rcd on a consumer unit upgrade, no reason not to?! unless the odd specified freezer socket surface mounted or a shed supply in armoured, the way i see it is if your changing the board then u are adopting all of the circuits and i would want them protected by rcd if it was mine regs or not.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

yes you are correct you can, how much will this cost in comparison? ive grew tired of you now "spin" and wont bother to reply to any further posts by you, this forum is not about taking a difficult subject and making it harder its here to help and offer reasonable advise not to show how good you are at reading a book.

I'm not suggesting that one use RCD sockets, so cost is not a matter. I'm pointing out that RCD protection is not required at the CU, and as such not installaing a board with RCDs will still comply with BS7671.
I suggest that you were tired of me to begin with, probably had discussions with you on other forums under one of your pseudonyms.
Well that's a relief, won't have to deal with your pointless and banal posts.
If you consider that I am making this subject harder, by pointing out innacuaracies, what can I say.
I think my advice is reasonable, it complies with the Regulations,at a minimal cost.
Perhaps if you were to take the trouble to improve your rading ability, we would not have to have these discussions.

Dave, I don't see why pointing out available options to comply with BS7671 should confuse people?