consumer units

[trickyb]

Hi all realy silly question maybe. Doing consumer change on old consumer 3036 type! now if all test,s out right is it our job to fit rcd protected mcb,s or rcbo,s or indeed any rcd protection at all ! or is it down to what the customer wants to pay ? what are the rules on this? thanks ian

 

[gamblor6]

because all circuits in a bathroom must have additional protection ie rcd. a db change alters all possible readings on all circuits so while the circuits were not installed by yourself the ratings of protection against fault and overcurrent are your lookout.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I understand what you are saying spin (which does not mean I agree) but why do you keep saying that you need an RCD for the bathroom? Surely using your socket theory if its not there already ... just note it. Where do you draw the line and why?

BS7671 requires that circuits of special locations be RCD protected.
Where else would you place the RCD to protect the circuit, if not at the origin of the circuit?

 

[gamblor6]

not required if all other limiting problems can be met ie 50 mm, socket outlet that any idiot can plug summit in to, and take outside, and clearly marked at the db spin.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

By not fitting an rcd how much have you really improved the safety of the installion? In my opinion if a mechanic sees a cars brakes are knackered then he should not let the car on the road.

Why exactly would you consider changing the board if not for safety?
There is no requirement to update installations that complied with earlier editions of the Regulations, as they are not considered to be unsafe.
If safety can only be achieved by the use of RCDs, why not just install an upfront RCD to cover the whole installation?

 

[BillyTheSparks]

not required if all other limiting problems can be met ie 50 mm, socket outlet that any idiot can plug summit in to, and take outside, and clearly marked at the db spin.

Which in an exsisting domestic is very hard to do

 

[kmcgold]

411.3.3 unless supervision of skilled or instructed person / labelled for connection of equipment what in a domestic house?

 

[j.mawer]

So you just ignore the sockets because they COULD be fixed elsewhere even as in a domestic situation at least some WILL be general use and they WILL be used by an unskilled person and WILL often have cable less than 50mm deep.

Whilst you MIGHT RCD the bathroom at the CU rather than just put it on a RCD spur or leaving it full stop as someone COULD use an RCD spur

SO in summary you aren't leaving the installation in a worse situation (or if you addef MCB a safer position) than it started and so that's OK? And by doing this you save your customer £25 and if that's what they want...

 

[BillyTheSparks]

Why exactly would you consider changing the board if not for safety?
There is no requirement to update installations that complied with earlier editions of the Regulations, as they are not considered to be unsafe.

Agreed.

If safety can only be achieved by the use of RCDs, why not just install an upfront RCD to cover the whole installation?

Because BS7671 does say that to minimise disruption, that the circuits should be arranged that in the event of a fault that there is no total loss of power

 

[gamblor6]

the problem is spin, your changing the biggest part of the installation, altering all levels of fault and overcurrent protection. an up front rcd would kill every thing, not providing discrimination between circuits. see your point but your wrong.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I really think that rather than just refuting my point of view, people should actually have a look at the Regulations if only just the ones that are applicable.
For instance 411.3.3 requires that socket-outlets for use by ordinary persons intended for general use have RCD protection. Does this apply to sockets that are intended to be used for a specific item of equipment such as a fridge, a dishwasher or even a TV or a Sky box?

 

[j.mawer]

I guess you don't have a vacuum cleaner, hairdrier hair straightners (not that I do), lamps etc

 

[gamblor6]

yes that imo is general use.

 

[kmcgold]

fridge dish washer in build in in units ok
tv etc can be moved
how many extra circuits are you going to install

imo

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A couple of pages back I was wrong, my advice must be ignored Page 21 of the OSG states socket-outlets must be RCD protected....

 

[gamblor6]

anyone else sick of this?