Food for Thought

[Spazz]

Yes another EICR question about landlords

Everyone knows about my fight to get RCDs and EICRs monitory.

But here is a question to see if it is already a legal requirement for EICRs!

I know there is no law stating that EICRs must be carried out but there is a law stating the electrical installation must be maintained and in safe working order.

So my question is how do you maintain and ensure that an electrical installation complies with this legal requirement without inspecting it since it was put into operation in the first place?
How do you know that it is still safe and maintained to the standard which is expected?

 

[Spazz]

.... and untrained & unskilled people can walk into the corner shop that sells car parts, hand over some money & walk out again with new brake pads etc. for their car, take them home & fit them to their own cars, their families cars, their neighbours cars, their friends cars and nobody bats an eyelid.

What do you propose doing about that ??

That is a crap example - have you ever fitted a pair of brake pads - you cant get them wrong! If you do then the brake caliper wont go back on - break shoes on the other hand are a pain in the a***

 

[Spazz]

OK lads 'n' lasses ...... I notice that some of you think our Friend Nicholas is trying to make money out of this campaign of his & I think this may be my fault.

In one of his posts, he stated this: "Everyone knows about my fight to get RCDs and EICRs monitory."

I think he meant MANDATORY, but me being the sarky "B" that I am posted in post #3: "So your fight is all about making money then ??? :tongue3: "

Hope that clears-up any confusion.

(BTW Nicholas, they are not "rouge traders" - they are "rogue traders". Rouge is the red stuff that lasses used to rub on their cheeks in olden times .. you know .... when me & Tony were bairns!!)

Thanks Geordie - for those who dont know already I am dyslexic - so I rely heavily on the spell check

I am always miss spelling words

 

[trev]

Nicholas, the point Geordie was trying to make is that a moving car is potentially a guided missile. One that causes a vast amount more deaths and injurys annually than electrical installations yet we are allowed to work on our cars without any restrictions. Granted, there is the MOT requirement but I think he makes a valid point

 

[Spazz]

I think there are a load on here who is either looking for a reason to have a bitch or generally dont get the idea of why I am doing this!

As has been said all landlords have the lives of their tenants in their hands (which everyone agrees with)
Yes Electricity in general is very safe but only in the hands of those who respect it! there are properties out there with no RCD protection, none compliant sockets (no safety covers in them), and no bonding throughout - some without even a cpc in the circuits. - glad to say these are fair and far in between!

Now think about it if you have a child (say <2 years old) and puts their fingers into a none compliant socket the only thing that will save their life is a RCD which operates correctly and disconnects within 40ms (at that current).

Yes we all know RCDs have their floors and yes we all know they slow down but done we all with age!

At the end of the day if a child is killed the landlord will be up on a manslaughter charge - now how many years do you think that landlord will face? 6 years or 10 years or more? Plus how do you think that landlord will feel?

Me personally I would not worry about the jail sentence - the guilt of someone being killed because I could not be bothered to fit a RCD or change the sockets is what will kill me! - I would be another statistic of those who hung them self in jail!


So now re-look at this again and see why I am doing this - protection for that child and protection for that landlord!



Yes I know that deaths as a result of electric is low - THANK GOD! but they are still happening and that is to many as far as I am concerned.

Just found some statistics released in Feb 2012 - 20% of electric shocks happen in rented properties.
Thats 4 deaths per year (15 elsewhere)
Thats 558 injuries per year (2,230 elsewhere)
Thats 4,285 electrical fires (17,139 elsewhere)
Thats 10 people killed as a result of electrical fires (39 elsewhere)

These stats are from ESC

 

[Spazz]

Nicholas, the point Geordie was trying to make is that a moving car is potentially a guided missile. One that causes a vast amount more deaths and injurys annually than electrical installations yet we are allowed to work on our cars without any restrictions. Granted, there is the MOT requirement but I think he makes a valid point

I fully agree, its just the example he used was not the best.

I know working on cars can be really dangerous and can cause more accidents but in general working on cars is fairly safe - if something goes wrong it usually goes so wrong that you notice it (or the onboard computer does) before the car moves anywhere - deaths from poor car repairs is realtivally low - but I get what you mean!

 

[Spazz]

Has anyone seen the new app that the ESC has released for landlords to self check their electrics - Im downloading it now to have a look

Guidance for landlords : Electrical Safety Council

 

[Geoffsd]

I think there are a load on here who is either looking for a reason to have a bitch or generally dont get the idea of why I am doing this!

Typical politician's reply - anyone who disagrees with me is stupid and ignorant.

Or it could be that they are correct

 

[trev]

Nicholas you say some interesting things in post 49. I don't think anyone is having a bitch about what you're trying to acheive, I think that you're not getting the futility of your goal no matter how praiseworthy it is. You are up against massive organisations who will fight tooth and nail to preserve the status quo EG one of the biggest landowners in this country is the church of england another is the queens various trading styles
When was the last time you saw a socket outlet with no shutters? I can't recall ever seeing one and I'm coming up to 30 years since I qualified.
You state that 20% of all electric shocks occur in rented properties. What about the other 80%? Not bothered about those?

 

[telectrix]

if RCDs came with a government tax/duty of 400odd%, like petrol and smokes, you can be certain they'd make them compulsory.

 

[Spazz]

When was the last time you saw a socket outlet with no shutters?

Friday when I installed a ciling rose in a rental property - managed to persuade them to change them as well

What about the other 80%?

I keep saying - these are as important as the 20% rental properties but things can only be done about those who have responsibility over someone else's life
These include:
Rental Properties
Commercial
Industrial
Hospitals
Social Clubs
etc

these dont include privately owned domestic houses where the owner lives at the address

 

[Spazz]

if RCDs came with a government tax/duty of 400odd%, like petrol and smokes, you can be certain they'd make them compulsory.

LIKE!


Where is your like button telectix

 

[trev]

If I go into a shop on Northumberland Street chances are it's rented, if it's in the Metrocentre then it definitely is. The owner of the premises has a legal duty of care to ensure as far as is reasonably practical that I will come to no harm. I've seen some pretty bad install in shops mate. Are you going to include these in your campaign? If not, why not?

 

[telectrix]

LIKE!


Where is your like button telectix

if you've posted almost simultaneously, you might not see the like button. do a refresh and it appears as if by magic.

 

[Spazz]

I would love to include these - but as said above commercial is not notifiable and it does not look like it will be

My personal opinion is that they should be notifiable!


Either way these shops have a duty of care exactly as you say!
If they are as bad as you say then a quiet word to the local EHP is in order!

The problem is at the moment a lot of people are coming from Europe and the rest of the world and they are used to doing their own electrics so they come here in search of a better life and they carry on with what they know!

If these became notifiable then all these problems will disappear as electricians will be carrying out the instead of Joe Blogs from the pub or Mr Muhammad from the corner shop doing his own electrics - I AM NOT RACIST!

 

[trev]

My point is, these are not notifiable as you say but why are you not crusading to make it notifiable or as I suggested earlier, to make Part P a meaningful, workable, enforceable piece of legislation.
Something that we all would happily get behind