Glad to see the domestic work is booming in the midlands

[Amp David]

Just had a news letter from My Local Electrician and saw the article in it.

Plug in to success with the UK


Paragraph 6, :38:

 

[oldtimer]

Its all about priorities ie I want a nice holiday a nice car a nice decorated house but whats the point of paying for a new CU when I cannot show it off

 

[johnboy6083]

i suppose what im saying Oldtimer, is that maybe a lot of electricians are not giving the business aspect of being a sole trader as much attention as the skill part. I dont run a business per se, i do the odd bit here and there along side my full time job, but if i wanted to go it alone, i know i couldnt just rely on my electrical skills, i would have to learn new skills, like how to sell jobs ect.

Im not condoning the 17day training ect, but im suggesting that maybe theres a reason they are doing so well (if that is the case).
I think that the fact that most of these people come from backgrounds other than trades/engineering means that maybe they are more customer focused or more adept at the business side of things.

 

[oldtimer]

I run a business and yes its a balance between promotion and the job you cannot do one without the other but its all in the word balance and it does not matter if you are selling beans or electrics the easy way is sales but theres the catch when this takes over a business it cannot be sustained hence why we are in the current economical state.

When asked an adviser said banking needs to become boring it wont make as much money but it will be safe and so will the country so they thanked him for his advise or in other words who cares the fast buck is king

 

[Engineer54]

I think you can take the whole thing as just another OTT advert for a training scam outfit, fishing for more fools to be caught in it's net!!

One minute he has a retail background, the next also offering decorating. If any of that advert is true about his staff, it'll be on the decorating side of things. This Wayne guy is like virtually all the others, he actually thinks he's an electrician, and it says a ''Good'' electrician too!!!

The guy is potentially dangerous to both himself and his customers. I bet none of these so-called multitude of customers know he is a 17 day trained installer, or that he was working/selling in a shop 3 weeks before he was in there house playing about with there electrical installation!! It bloody criminal that's what it is....

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'd like to know how much electrical theory is taught on these short courses...apart from V=IR & P=VI ?

 

[Guest55]

I'd like to know how much electrical theory is taught on these short courses...apart from V=IR & P=VI ?

i'd say V= it hurts.
;-)

 

[Silly Sausage]

Or even, a big I = death...I wonder?

 

[oldtimer]

Its like on the PV section someone asks if a certain company is legit when you log on to their site they are saying 1000% profit so how come Bernie Madoff was jailed for promising 5% over the current APR figure.

I had a customer who wanted an old light put up her decorator said he did little electrical jobs but got me in instead and then watched be go up and check the lathe and plaster ceiling as it was a heavy light fitting plus I told her it was not fit to put in as it needed restored so she sent it away and it was cleaned and rewired I then returned to put it in.

Now given the light was directly above the bed in the main bedroom she said yep you were right the decorator just wanted to throw it up but you checked out the safety aspect and its not worth thinking about if it came away from its fixings

 

[ipf]

The usual bending the truth if your in the selling game. It is criminal, especially when it involves highly dangerous situations. False confidence and security given to installers and householders alike. I still can't get the idea of so called qualified teachers overseeing or running these courses. These people, in general, have come through the ranks of our industry and know exactly what they are doing, s******g on the game for easy money. I wonder how many of them packed in because things were getting more difficult and ended up training payees to pass exams from scratch for an easy way out.
Hard faced and two faced.

 

[Des 56]

He's a fully qualified electrician now apparently, it only took him 17 days, is that a record?

Johnny-G you must have missed this vitally important statement in the bumf

quote
The tutors were amazing !

So there you have it, that must be the reason the students can become superhuman in 17 days
IMy tutors must have lacked that "amazing" quality :dunce:

 

[telectrix]

probably a missprint. should be amuzing.

 

[stan794]

I'd like to know how much electrical theory is taught on these short courses...apart from V=IR & P=VI ?

Ive done one mate and that is all the theory you get in a nutshell. I fell for the sales spiel, 17th, and 2392 and your qualified mate was what I was told and let loose on people's homes. I'm already a tradesman running my own biz but soon realised these courses are very poor and leave you lacking in many key skills, but don't worry they say we have a helpline. I now have employed a proper spark and when needed I will help him as a mate. If the public new these type of courses were churning domestic installers out in 3 weeks then I'm sure they would not get the work. Oh and the scam providers don't start me on that, they passed me with flying colours which is a joke.

 

[oldtimer]

thank for your honesty

 

[i=p/u]

everyman for themselves then .............. i can paint, i can tile , i can do loads... and didnt even need a course,i did do a course on electrical and i just cant work out electricity the way i want too..

ah well

- - - Updated - - -

should i say i aint confident and fluent

 

[Tradeskills4u]

I just saw this thread and wanted to answer some of your queries. I can confirm this is a true story and we recently received the content in a letter form from Wayne Lewis an ex-candidate of ours who was very happy with his training and the level of work he has received since registering as a domestic installer. Like any good training company we wanted to shout about this feedback. We would never publish something that was untrue or make anything like this up.

I wanted to also highlight that we are the good guys here. We really do try and deliver the best training possible be that for a domestic installer or for a fully qualified electrician. We do offer short courses but we also offer people the choice to go down the fully qualified route and right now in our centre we have over 30 guys all doing the 2365 and 2357 qualifications.

There seems to be some negativity around short courses, however a large percentage of our trainees are fully qualified electricians who seem to prefer to do intensive courses to update their skills rather than sit in a college for weeks on end. Many of them find learning something like 17[SUP]th[/SUP] edition regs in just a few days much easier than spreading the training out.

There seems to be a lot of negativity about this press release on the forum which is sad to see as this guy really has achieved a lot in a short space of time. I can assure you he would have worked very hard to get there too and I think he should be congratulated not ridiculed for that.

I also think we should be more worried about the guys out there working with no training whatsoever than those who seek to train properly and understand to correctly install either domestically or commercially.

 

[ipf]

I just saw this thread and wanted to answer some of your queries. I can confirm this is a true story and we recently received the content in a letter form from Wayne Lewis an ex-candidate of ours who was very happy with his training and the level of work he has received since registering as a domestic installer. Like any good training company we wanted to shout about this feedback. We would never publish something that was untrue or make anything like this up.

I wanted to also highlight that we are the good guys here. We really do try and deliver the best training possible be that for a domestic installer or for a fully qualified electrician. We do offer short courses but we also offer people the choice to go down the fully qualified route and right now in our centre we have over 30 guys all doing the 2365 and 2357 qualifications.
What exactly is a 'fully qualified domestic installer' then ? (as per the publication)
There seems to be some negativity around short courses, however a large percentage of our trainees are fully qualified electricians who seem to prefer to do intensive courses to update their skills rather than sit in a college for weeks on end. Many of them find learning something like 17[SUP]th[/SUP] edition regs in just a few days much easier than spreading the training out.
No problems with this, in fact the upgrade to 17th was a necessity, post 2011.
There seems to be a lot of negativity about this press release on the forum which is sad to see as this guy really has achieved a lot in a short space of time. I can assure you he would have worked very hard to get there too and I think he should be congratulated not ridiculed for that.

I also think we should be more worried about the guys out there working with no training whatsoever than those who seek to train properly and understand to correctly install either domestically or commercially.

I have no doubt that a minority of short course 'candidates' have the necessary knowledge and 'get up and go' to succeed, as did Mr Lewis. However, it is a significant minority. Regarding 'shouting about this feedback', the National Lottery regularly do the same with their succesful subscribers. It all helps to sell but the chances of true success are slim.
What exactly is your position and what are your electrical qualifications, if you don't mind me asking ?

 

[oldtimer]

Tend to endorse what ipf is saying but again as I said this just does not stack up right and looks for all to see a marriage of convenience for your company and Mr Lewis with the erring on "you to can be be an overnight success" Dont get me wrong its not envy I have for Mr Lewis as I have run 2 businesses and have never seen any business take off as fast as this plus if you check out his web site there seems to be a mix between decorating and electrics with no substance behind it.

ipf questions if you are technically qualified but me I suspect you are on the Admin/Sales side because you comment of a large percentage smacks of a sales speech so I am going to pin you down here because my understanding is the term large percentages equates to 75% plus and I am willing to be corrected from you and I hope you wont hide behind we need to protect our sources comment.

Now lets get something out of the way here am I anti training centre no not a bit and yes you and your company have a role to fill but just like the Scheme providors companies like you tend to ramp up the volume on sales hence the what appears to good publicity for you and Mr Lewis raises alarms with guys like me who still cannot get it into his head how anybody can get qualified in such a short time.Plus I will concede that an individual can be trained for domestic electrics not in 4 years but in 2 years anything less in my opinion is not enough preperation.

 

[sparks1973]

Just had a news letter from My Local Electrician and saw the article in it.

Plug in to success with the UK


Paragraph 6, :38:

should be `in the money` then....

 

[ashrow]

God help us ! I should of done a course like that then an apprenticeship

 

[Guitarist]

I find the whole modern attitude of being "fully qualified in just a few weeks" extremely insulting to all of us who spent 3 or 4 years of our life training and studying, on very low wages, so that we could be what we thought was "fully qualified".

 

[Swicade]

As has been said many times by many people short 'update' courses for those already in the trade have never been a problem.

The bad feeling is all about people with no prior experience being able to do a short course and then be told they're 'fully qualified' making them believe they're as good (if not better) than someone who has taken the time to complete a time served course (nvq3 etc).

 

[alarm man]

works both ways,apparantley theres a well paid job going in retail for an unemployed spark,might go it for,ive always wanted to work in a shop..

 

[tazz]

Seems to be the modern age...buy a top of the range Website..become a jack of all trades...with unskilled staff then sort the problems out later, after you`ve made a mass profit ofcause

 

[vaughant]

I hope this doesn't come across as racist but it looks to me like Wayne might be of Asian decent?
If this is the case then he may well be getting a lot of work this way as the community have a very different attitude to us in this day and age and that's one of "looking after their own",hence he would then get a lot of the property maintenance side of their businesses.
I know this as a good mate of mine is Asian and offered me the gig years ago,it's just Im not really a domestic spark and I was earning good wonga at the time but the work they had was tremendous,he was open and told me I was only in the frame cos none of their own boys had 2391.
good luck to him if he's doing well,I see no reason why he wouldn't be but my gripe is him saying he's a "fully qualified electrician" when he's not.
To be fair the advert does state he's a "domestic installer" but some artistic licence in their blurb certainly hints that he trained to become an "electrician".

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Hi All,

The reason we originally got involved in this thread was because our integrity and the validity of this case study was questioned. To get drawn into a debate about long and short courses is pointless because in our view people taking training are always to be supported by doing the right thing, but as a specialist electrical training provider we will always deliver the courses that current legislation and the customer demands, we just train people in currently available qualifications, we don't decide who can work in the industry.

In fact – Let’s be frank, the electrical installation industry is in practice unregulated as anyone can do anything, anywhere. As long as there is no requirement for a licence to practice as an electrician or competent installer it will continue to be the case; a completely untrained unqualified person of any age can go into a DIY store or any electrical wholesalers and buy anything, consumer units, power showers the lot and go and fit it anywhere, flying under the radar of the Part P regs which are let’s face it, poorly policed.

Our view is that people who join the industry, get qualified, get trained, get registered, get insurance, pay taxes are the good guys. You cannot conceivably stop the many thousands of associated trades from installing electrics, literally tens of thousands of small businesses would go bust if you did. The Aircon engineer or conservatory builder or pool engineer will never undertake a full 3 year apprenticeship and in any case only 5% of electrical contractors have the ability to take on apprentices, so who would they do their NVQ with? We train these types of small business people and are proud to support them, as we do existing electrical contractors. The greater majority of people who stand in the wholesalers queues everyday are neither properly trained nor qualified in any way. Its our view and we lobby those decision makers on your behalf, that anyone installing electrics should be legally required to be at least registered competent, until then, any discussions on forums though understandable are merely moans and irrelevant.

Why don’t you try and positively contribute to change things?

We have considered starting an e petition to parliament re licencing of electricians, would there be support for that if we set it up?

Carl Bennett
MD Trade Skills 4U