Glad to see the domestic work is booming in the midlands

[Amp David]

Just had a news letter from My Local Electrician and saw the article in it.

Plug in to success with the UK


Paragraph 6, :38:

 

[Swicade]

As has been said many times by many people short 'update' courses for those already in the trade have never been a problem.

The bad feeling is all about people with no prior experience being able to do a short course and then be told they're 'fully qualified' making them believe they're as good (if not better) than someone who has taken the time to complete a time served course (nvq3 etc).

 

[alarm man]

works both ways,apparantley theres a well paid job going in retail for an unemployed spark,might go it for,ive always wanted to work in a shop..

 

[tazz]

Seems to be the modern age...buy a top of the range Website..become a jack of all trades...with unskilled staff then sort the problems out later, after you`ve made a mass profit ofcause

 

[vaughant]

I hope this doesn't come across as racist but it looks to me like Wayne might be of Asian decent?
If this is the case then he may well be getting a lot of work this way as the community have a very different attitude to us in this day and age and that's one of "looking after their own",hence he would then get a lot of the property maintenance side of their businesses.
I know this as a good mate of mine is Asian and offered me the gig years ago,it's just Im not really a domestic spark and I was earning good wonga at the time but the work they had was tremendous,he was open and told me I was only in the frame cos none of their own boys had 2391.
good luck to him if he's doing well,I see no reason why he wouldn't be but my gripe is him saying he's a "fully qualified electrician" when he's not.
To be fair the advert does state he's a "domestic installer" but some artistic licence in their blurb certainly hints that he trained to become an "electrician".

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Hi All,

The reason we originally got involved in this thread was because our integrity and the validity of this case study was questioned. To get drawn into a debate about long and short courses is pointless because in our view people taking training are always to be supported by doing the right thing, but as a specialist electrical training provider we will always deliver the courses that current legislation and the customer demands, we just train people in currently available qualifications, we don't decide who can work in the industry.

In fact – Let’s be frank, the electrical installation industry is in practice unregulated as anyone can do anything, anywhere. As long as there is no requirement for a licence to practice as an electrician or competent installer it will continue to be the case; a completely untrained unqualified person of any age can go into a DIY store or any electrical wholesalers and buy anything, consumer units, power showers the lot and go and fit it anywhere, flying under the radar of the Part P regs which are let’s face it, poorly policed.

Our view is that people who join the industry, get qualified, get trained, get registered, get insurance, pay taxes are the good guys. You cannot conceivably stop the many thousands of associated trades from installing electrics, literally tens of thousands of small businesses would go bust if you did. The Aircon engineer or conservatory builder or pool engineer will never undertake a full 3 year apprenticeship and in any case only 5% of electrical contractors have the ability to take on apprentices, so who would they do their NVQ with? We train these types of small business people and are proud to support them, as we do existing electrical contractors. The greater majority of people who stand in the wholesalers queues everyday are neither properly trained nor qualified in any way. Its our view and we lobby those decision makers on your behalf, that anyone installing electrics should be legally required to be at least registered competent, until then, any discussions on forums though understandable are merely moans and irrelevant.

Why don’t you try and positively contribute to change things?

We have considered starting an e petition to parliament re licencing of electricians, would there be support for that if we set it up?

Carl Bennett
MD Trade Skills 4U

 

[trev]

We have considered starting an e petition to parliament re licencing of electricians, would there be support for that if we set it up?

Carl Bennett
MD Trade Skills 4U

I believe that there would be support for such a move as other countrys operate similar systems and they appear to work perfectly well, the question is though would the government take any notice of it and act accordingly? My guess is no because they have been told that the existing legislation is robust and fit for purpose, the fact that they have been told this by organisations with a vested interest is neither here nor there though.
You mention in your post that anyone can walk into a wholesalers and leave with any item of electrical equipment they see fit, while this is true I feel it should also be pointed out that I can open a Sunday paper, whip out my debit card and order everything I need to install a central heating system anywhere I please. I can also visit Halfords and buy car parts, any builders merchants and buy roofing joists etc etc etc, all with no questions asked.
Legislation forcing people buying electrical items to produce a JIB/scheme membership card would result in hundreds, possibly thousands more people being put out of work which is why it will not happen.

 

[oldtimer]

Thanks for getting back Carl and although you never addressed our or my concerns about this thread I understand where you are coming from and yes you are trying to protect your business and as I have said you have a role to play and you fill it so no probs their then but my concern is that when sales takes over all forms of restraint goes ot the window so to speak and the article that started this post ticked all of the description that says this is pure spin and hype.

Now I can totally agree with you as there is no legal requirement for electricians to be licenced and because of that we are witnessing an industry that is in my view is out of control with regards to Scheme members and companies like yours who should be the gatekeepers of the industry are willing to badge and qualify anyone who can pay now you are thinking thats a bit unfair well my advise would be read some of the mails we get ie I have got my C&Gs I did my 5 week course with XXXX I have recently registered with XXXXX
can someone remind me on how to test for Ze.

Again easy for me to say but in another post I lost a job because I would not connect a class I fitting to a lighting circuit with no cpc in this case I acted as a gatekeeper but I dont see companies like yours or Scheme providors saying the same thing because you are sales driven well that ok then.

As for the comment "Moans are irrelevant" are uncalled for why because we are not here to take an ego for a run far from it we do want higher standards and I have costantly stated that electricians should be licenced and Scheme providors and companies like yours should stick to supplying cost effective training but sadly you have too much say with the government with regards to the way ahead for the country.

Yes I would also agree that Joe Bloggs can walk in to a DIY shed and buy what he likes and I would also point out that under the European Free Trade act you are not legally required to join a Scheme. The only thing that will sort this mess out is when a Scheme provider is taken to to court for negligence or conflict of interests. Yes they and you want to grow and expand your businesses but not in the sales driven frenzy that we see so do me a favour read that article again and if you honestly feel that it was fair and balanced then in my view as they say up here your eyes are greedier than your belly and remember thats how the banks collapsed .

 

[ipf]

Hi All,

The reason we originally got involved in this thread was because our integrity and the validity of this case study was questioned. To get drawn into a debate about long and short courses is pointless because in our view people taking training are always to be supported by doing the right thing, but as a specialist electrical training provider we will always deliver the courses that current legislation and the customer demands, we just train people in currently available qualifications, we don't decide who can work in the industry.

In fact – Let’s be frank, the electrical installation industry is in practice unregulated as anyone can do anything, anywhere. As long as there is no requirement for a licence to practice as an electrician or competent installer it will continue to be the case; a completely untrained unqualified person of any age can go into a DIY store or any electrical wholesalers and buy anything, consumer units, power showers the lot and go and fit it anywhere, flying under the radar of the Part P regs which are let’s face it, poorly policed.

Our view is that people who join the industry, get qualified, get trained, get registered, get insurance, pay taxes are the good guys. You cannot conceivably stop the many thousands of associated trades from installing electrics, literally tens of thousands of small businesses would go bust if you did. The Aircon engineer or conservatory builder or pool engineer will never undertake a full 3 year apprenticeship and in any case only 5% of electrical contractors have the ability to take on apprentices, so who would they do their NVQ with? We train these types of small business people and are proud to support them, as we do existing electrical contractors. The greater majority of people who stand in the wholesalers queues everyday are neither properly trained nor qualified in any way. Its our view and we lobby those decision makers on your behalf, that anyone installing electrics should be legally required to be at least registered competent, until then, any discussions on forums though understandable are merely moans and irrelevant.

Why don’t you try and positively contribute to change things?

We have considered starting an e petition to parliament re licencing of electricians, would there be support for that if we set it up?

Carl Bennett
MD Trade Skills 4U

A lot of good points Carl. A lot of good points covered by OT and Trev, too.

I agree that you don't decide who can work in the industry but, to some extent, intentionally or not, you lull people into believing that they can. Whilst upgrading current tradesmen to the required standard is, to an extent, commendable, is duping others into thinking they are 'fully qualified' a good way of making a living? Fair to you with the 'current regulation'.
You talk about 'moans and irrelevant', who shouldn't complain with some of the situations that we come across. More danger stems from the overconfident who think they know what they're doing, whether they be qualified or DIYers.

I appreciate, looking at your website, that you are not in the 'guarateed £30k brigade', but it doesn't alter the facts regarding those starting from scratch.

I ask once more of your standing and qualification in the electrical industry...?

 

[Silly Sausage]

I ask once more of your standing and qualification in the electrical industry...?

A quick google search reveals...

Carl Bennett
Owner, Tradeskills4U
Redhill, United Kingdom | Electrical/Electronic Manufacturing
Current: CEO at Tradeskills4U Ltd
Past: Specialist Firearms Officer SO19 Dept ( now CO19 ) at Metropolitan Police
Summary: A Renewable Skills and Electrical Training Organisation.


Carl Bennett profiles | LinkedIn

scroll down to see the above!


I wonder if it is one and the same person?!

 

[oldtimer]

well if it is then we are right to be concerned about this article and the sales mentality of this company.

PS the silence is deafining

 

[oldtimer]

Forgive me here if I am being cynical Carl I have been an electrician for 33 years and I would like to start a small arms training school supplying firearm police officers my thinking is to get signed up with all the relevant organisations and get people qualified in toot sweet time because nobody has bothered to licence the way we do things in this country.

Or do you think I am being a bit Gun Hoe here

 

[imago]

To be fair though, why would he (Carl Bennett) need any qualificatrions or standing within this or any other industry? Colleges and apprenticeships are the often quoted mantra on this forum, but does the principle, deputy principle, or funding bodies of any college need a qualification in a trade? Horses for courses (excuse the pun) IMHO.

 

[Silly Sausage]

True.
This guy seems fairly experienced!
Andrew Hay-Ellis - United Kingdom | LinkedIn

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Guys and Girls, my experience is in training and business, my SO19 career is most definitely relevant for the education industry as I also had a role in the training of Specialist Firearms Officers and therefore relevant particularly as SO19 is one of the world's finest firearms departments. My staff are both experienced and fully qualified in the electrical industry, we have a spread of electrical contractors now turned instructors and theoretical college tutors. Our service is second to none just check out our review pages where we show warts and all feedback from of each course.

Tradeskills4U has a high profile in the UK which is why there is always discussion about us, but we actually deliver the same range of courses as any college in the UK including the industry bodies.

I don’t want to get into a bun fight about entry into the industry as that is not our role, we teach, that’s all we do, but what I will say is that it certainly needs an overhaul. At the moment there are so many differing sectors and roles that install electrics in some fashion that a one size fits all system is not fit for purpose. One thing I would say is that if the electrical industry raises the barrier to entry for people, more people will go under the bar and not become trained or qualified in any way. That is not good for your industry in terms of competition or reputation. A legal requirement for registration is the only solution and I’ve lobbied to that effect to most of the decision makers, hopefully with a bit of effort, we can tidy up this industry. But please don’t shoot the messenger here.

I don’t think it’s my place to contribute on these forums generally; our only reason to contribute in this case was to defend an incorrect slur on our reputation, so I’ll sign off for now.

Carl Bennett MD
TS4U

 

[imago]

my experience is in training and business, my SO19 career is most definitely relevant for the education industry

I'd heard education could be rough, but I didn't realise it was that bad!