Had a PIR done on my house today, Can ne 1 beat this Guy 1hr 10mins and gone?

[mattmoo1974]

Lol he came in his test sheet was half filled in, Every thing was >200 Meg Ohms.
I asked how many he did a day he said 3-4. asked how much his company charge he said "You wont get much more the 80-90 quid for a PIR these days"
i live in a 3 bed house. He did in fairness put some g@y sleeving on some bare Cpc's.
1 light SWT came off 1 Double socket.

 

[oldtimer]

If someone wants to do dodgy PIR's, dodgy PAT or any other part of our industry that's open to abuse then they will, you can't blame NICEIC etc.

The scheme providers can police their members to a certain extent but short of watching over every job, what else can they do?

The public's appetite for a dirt cheap PIR with a 'satisfactory' assessment plays straight into the hands of the 4 a day fraudulent thief doing the Google Earth inspection.

IQ I realise that they cannot police every single job but for the money they are taking me thinks a few spot checks would not go amiss and then again have you ever seen anyone being kicked out of these scheme providors or being named and shamed. Let me put it this way if we told the police yes we will pay you but dont bother leaving the station and just work on crime provention then is it any wonder why the crime rates shoot up.

 

[IQ Electrical]

IQ I realise that they cannot police every single job but for the money they are taking me thinks a few spot checks would not go amiss and then again have you ever seen anyone being kicked out of these scheme providors or being named and shamed. Let me put it this way if we told the police yes we will pay you but dont bother leaving the station and just work on crime provention then is it any wonder why the crime rates shoot up.

I absolutely agree with the spot checks idea but after having some involvement with technical assessments, I can tell you, it just won't work.

If a contractor has a 'dodgy job' that he does not want the assessor to see then the assessor will not get to see it for whatever reason.

The other problem stems from the fact that we are assuming that these idiots are actually members of a scheme, I doubt if the majority are.

The unregistered, uninsured, probably non-competent scum will continue to operate, undercutting the likes of us and defrauding the client that declined the probably higher-priced registered contractor in the first place.

I don't have an answer other than the US style of licensed electricians and I would support that idea in a heartbeat!

 

[oldtimer]

IQ I hear what you say but a few years ago the Inland Revenue went into Manchester and basically pulled in a pile of taxi drivers they also went on local radio and said we are not putting up with this we will root tax aviodance out. That week 10,000 people registered with the IR as taxi drivers and half of them signed off the dole so does it work well spot checks , then warning notices then for extreme offenders eventually remove their registration because lets face it thats the reason they get the work in the first place. We can no longer take the cant work wont work approuch but me thinks this will not happen as these schemes err on the side of the member in fact one guy who is a member was asked to sort out an extention for a couple with an handicapped kid because the member who did it made a right mess surely this is wrong. As I have said before I am in favour of schemes as long as they work the only problem is to me its turning out to be like the Master Federation of builders and the Master Federation of Second Hand Car Dealers. In other words we will police it but do not ask us to enforce it

 

[IQ Electrical]

And it will always be like this with our voluntary membership scheme provider system.

Imagine NAPIT raiding your office on a tip off that you installed under sized tails or whatever?

 

[LukeD]

Its a right royal mess. Do other countries work like this ?

If you want to drive a car you get a license . only one route and it works. Been any form of sparky is like entering a Maze these days .

No wonder customers are unsure also and have no idea what to expect . Having spent time in Germany, i like the way it works there.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I would jump at a license system, it would be much better for business, clients and the general standards of our industry.

But, the cost would be enormous and I keep saying this but we don't kill enough people to warrant such a cost to the government.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I would jump at a license system, it would be much better for business, clients and the general standards of our industry.

But, the cost would be enormous and I keep saying this but we don't kill enough people to warrant such a cost to the government.

 

[telectrix]

I would jump at a license system, it would be much better for business, clients and the general standards of our industry.

But, the cost would be enormous and I keep saying this but we don't kill enough people to warrant such a cost to the government.

and who do you think would end up paying these enormous costs?yep.us. as i have said in a previous thread, a start would be to ban sales of all but the basic fittings to ther general public. a response i got was that the sheds wouldn't stand for the loss of sales. however, the same quantity of equipment would still be sold, to electricians. so if the sheds were competitive with wholesalers, they would not lose anything. a scheme along the lines of gas safe is the way forward IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Safety is what it is all about and dont get me wrong but setting up an exclusive "club" could be a license to print money. What I do no get is in my case I serve my time 4 years then spend 2 years improving to get my approved then go back for 15th,16th,17th & IT then before I can renew my card I need an safety course every 3 years now I have no problem with all of this but me thinks why there is a big grey area in the UK is if we make it manditory to register with a scheme providor then this could be seen as a infringement of free trade in other words I have have complied with all the technical requirements under the law of this country I am insured and I am (probably) better qualified than our "eastern european cousins" who have decided to come for a short visit to our shores to make a few bob so no comittment their then and I am told your not a member of the big boys club so we need to tell everybody that you could be a problem yet Yarick and Darick can work for somebody who is not even qualified even though the ink is still to dry on their european electricians card and the "scheme providor" is breaking their neck to badge them which in turn gets them the work and as Smith and Jones use to say "and thats a good deal"
I am not blaming the scheme providors as they are a victim of their own non technical management in other words a fudge but things are changing Joe Public is starting to question these schemes across the board and noy just in our industry examples such as misold pension, endownments , bank failures etc

 

[tonys]

I don't have an answer other than the US style of licensed electricians and I would support that idea in a heartbeat!

JIB - no more needs to be said.

 

[nickblake]

I always allow a full day for PIR and fixing any minor bits and pieces, and codes 1's. Charge my day rate. Once explained to the customer (usually a landlord) what my responsibilities are to them, and what their responsibilities are to their tenants it usually gets agreed. It gets done properly, I sleep and so do they. When all said and done if its costed over 5 years it works out at about £1 per week, which is about the same as the MOT on your car which nobody flinches about.

Cheers.......Howard

I must admit howard the periodics i do are for land lords one in perticular she great and weve worked up a good working relation ship go in test the the works done almost straight aways any minor works are done at the time but one of the biggest problems is that some letting agents say no matter how dangerouse the installation is exposed terminals im not allowed to do anything with out written autheriseation although i do just to make it as safe as i can , i have issued a danger notification on one house and the land lord basically told me i was out to make money me i ask you still as i have said i have principles if its not right it needs sorting

 

[LukeD]

Landlords.... some of the biggest scum on earth

I remember a certain one near me in Golders Green who was offering cash for Corgi safety certs on all of his 100+ disgusting poor condition but mega expensive to the DHSS . He caused a death and only escaped jail by doing a runner .

As mentioned above, far to much is sold to the public. I know one whole seller near me that will not allow none trade into his shop at all. They have no right to be buying anything in a trade shop. it makes my angry when i see customers demanding to go along with the tradesman to a trade shop and by all that is needed.

But cash in hand is also killing the trade. I hope they ban it and fine anyone who pays cash etc and gets no receipts etc .

 

[LukeD]

Thats another reason why in germany the electrical business is not ruined by cheaper eastern europeans . They have rules, stick to them and so do the public .

 

[IQ Electrical]

I was impressed at the refusal of Electrifix to open our account without sight of our NICEIC certificate!

It shows it can be done!

And TonyS, you're right, the framework is there with the JIB, again, it can be done!

 

[J.C.E]

I am still an apprentice, and the company I work for has different departments. One of which being the voids (so council properties empty ready for the next people to move in, so we test them)

All the above posts seem to suggest these tests should take a while, and I am just curious why engineers on the company I work for do them so quickly!?

Most tests went like this when I was with the void department:

Take off cu cover, measured ka and ze

then on all circuits get a zs reading at a few points on each circuit and record the
highest reading (for s/o use the plug test lead, so dont have to remove the actual s/o)

get a rcd reading for however many rcds there are (normally 2) - and record the reading for 1x and 5x

then for any ring circuits, take the two legs of the ring and get a reading for contuinity (live neutral and earth)

record how many points each circuit has

and for r1+r2 readings, just use the formula r1+r2 = zs-ze, as we have already got readings for zs and ze

The test usually took around 30mins, however there only use to be around 8 circuits


Is this acceaptable for a test, or should my company be doing more?