Installing ceiling lights but there is no earth

[James]

Just out of interest, is there an EICR (electrical report) for the property?
it is required by law for all rented property's , just like the gas safety check.

If so, i am surprised that it has not come up on the report.

 

[sam4466]

Just out of interest, is there an EICR (electrical report) for the property?
it is required by law for all rented property's , just like the gas safety check.

If so, i am surprised that it has not come up on the report.

I don't know.the sound proofing was fitted around 6-7 months ago upon my request,prior to that there was a standard ceiling rose with earth connection.
they probably assumed that a normal shade will be attached and not a whole new lightning system (spotlights) that requires wiring and earth.
I don't think it's such a safety breach unless a lightning that requires earth is fitted.

been looking for double insulated ceiling spotlights and so for no luck, not on amazon,not on argos,etc the majority of these spotlights are made in China and it seems there is no such thing as double-insulating / class 2 standard.they probably just use some extra insulating tape and call it a day in most other countries?

 

[James]

All screw type connections must be accessible for service, repair and testing.
it is clear to me that by covering up the only access to them, they have reduced the safety of the installation.

it is likely that an electrical inspection will pick up on this issue and consider it to be a dangerous fault and this then will have to be repaired or investigated within 30 days.

a possible solution is to fit a notice to the consumer unit that states that there is no earth to the lighting circuits and class 1 fittings may NOT be fitted.

I think you could do with a professional electrician doing a site visit and preferably an EICR report.

 

[sam4466]

All screw type connections must be accessible for service, repair and testing.
it is clear to me that by covering up the only access to them, they have reduced the safety of the installation.

it is likely that an electrical inspection will pick up on this issue and consider it to be a dangerous fault and this then will have to be repaired or investigated within 30 days.

a possible solution is to fit a notice to the consumer unit that states that there is no earth to the lighting circuits and class 1 fittings may NOT be fitted.

I think you could do with a professional electrician doing a site visit and preferably an EICR report.

well that's not going to help with my problem is it? a notice that class 1 fitting could not be fitted! something that I already know. also as a tenant,all these repairs and inspections etc are on landlord.

 

[DPG]

well that's not going to help with my problem is it? a notice that class 1 fitting could not be fitted! something that I already know. also as a tenant,all these repairs and inspections etc are on landlord.

But you didn't know that until you were told by people on here.

You have had some good advice - it's up to you whether to heed it or not.

 

[Zerax]

Without investigating it myself... from what you have said... it sounds like if someone carefully dug out the plaster... they might find the original ceiling rose... then that person might be able to refit it correctly onto the surface of the ceiling, making good and re-painting.

 

[sam4466]

But you didn't know that until you were told by people on here.

You have had some good advice - it's up to you whether to heed it or not.

what do you mean?
I'm saying at this point,there is no point in bringing an electrician to provide me a note that certain type of fitting shouldn't be installed.

 

[telectrix]

no but a good electrician w

what do you mean?
I'm saying at this point,there is no point in bringing an electrician to provide me a note that certain type of fitting shouldn't be installed.

ould fing that rose in 5 minutes with a trusty hammer.

 

[sam4466]

Without investigating it myself... from what you have said... it sounds like if someone carefully dug out the plaster... they might find the original ceiling rose... then that person might be able to refit it correctly onto the surface of the ceiling, making good and re-painting.

it's not just plaster unfortunately,there one layer of plaster,then sound proofing board,then sound proofing foam,and then the original ceiling where the ceiling rose is fitted.it's simply not worth it/maybe not even possible.
the best choice will be either not installing a new lightning,or find one tjhat doesn't need earth (double insulated class 2) which are apparently not common and hard to find.

 

[telectrix]

no but a good electrician w

what do you mean?
I'm saying at this point,there is no point in bringing an electrician to provide me a note that certain type of fitting shouldn't be installed.

ould fing that rose in 5 minutes with a trusty hammer.

 

[Zerax]

it's not just plaster unfortunately,there one layer of plaster,then sound proofing board,then sound proofing foam,and then the original ceiling where the ceiling rose is fitted.it's simply not worth it/maybe not even possible.
the best choice will be either not installing a new lightning,or find one tjhat doesn't need earth (double insulated class 2) which are apparently not common and hard to find.

You still have the issue that there are screw-down connections within the ceiling that are not accessible. If an electrician needs to find a fault at some future time... he'll find it a bit tricky.. won't he ??

If it was me living there... I'd have that ceiling rose exposed...

I understand what sound proofing board is... my suggestion was that it may be possible that if you locate the ceiling rose, there may be enough slack on the cables for it to move downwards so that it's a the same level as the new ceiling... then back fill the hole behind it.

In the time I've spent writing this reply... I could probably have found it ! If it was a head-to-head with Tel I think he would have beaten me of course...

 

[sam4466]

Without investigating it myself... from what you have said... it sounds like if someone carefully dug out the plaster... they might find the original ceiling rose... then that person might be able to refit it correctly onto the surface of the ceiling, making good and re-painting.

no but a good electrician w

ould fing that rose in 5 minutes with a trusty hammer.

I found some photoes from the ceiling rose from the day sound proofing were being installed.
so it's now burried under layers of foam,boards and plaster.

 

[DPG]

Well, you know what needs to be done now anyway. Up to you now.

 

[sam4466]

In the time I've spent writing this reply... I could probably have found it ! If it was a head-to-head with Tel I think he would have beaten me of course...

check my posted pictures.I think it's impossible to reach without significant damage.

 

[Zerax]

Oh !!! It's behind a false ceiling... it's becoming clearer. In that case... you need to create an access panel around that light... big enough to work in... the plasterboard needs carefully cutting out with a plasterboard saw. Then fish out the ceiling rose... refit the access panel and re-mount the ceiling rose.... 30 min job for a sparky !