NICEIC Certification Scheme Max ZS allowed on NICEIC cert seems wrong?

[ImpededLoop]

Sorry but you obviously are making this up and not speaking from experience. I however am and a far larger proportion of these fires originated from uncertified work carried out by non registered people.

I am genuinely interested to see the figures to back up the reasons for the upcoming changes to consumer unit construction. Do you know if it's available online?

Having been involved in committee environments for most of my career, I'm slightly skeptical about the gravity of the problem and somewhat suspicious that this was one persons pet subject that has been accepted without full due diligence.

I hope that I am wrong and I am interested to see the figures to back up the new regulation.

 

[Clark3169]

Oh and 74% of statitics are made up so they prove nothing.

Thats simply not true as its part of my job to accurately report these figures and I've seen first hand the positive effect part p has had. I know you love to hate it because it's an expense and a inconvenience to be tested etc... but you can't change the facts that it has made things safer.

 

[spark 68]

If the extension was subject to full planning permission and building regs then informing building control that an unregistered but qualified electrician was doing the work would have negated that charge and any electrical inspections would have to have been carried out for the standard building regs inspection charge which was paid anyway for the buildings regs inspection for all of the other building regs.

As it is they may be able to claim back against building control for overcharging them for that inspection.

Not now mate, the Electrics have been removed from the LABC plans etc. they are to be paid for in addition if required, ie. as a separate item, it is cheaper to employ a CPS member to sign the electrics off, unless you can swing a deal yourself with your LABC.

 

[Clark3169]

I am genuinely interested to see the figures to back up the reasons for the upcoming changes to consumer unit construction. Do you know if it's available online?

Having been involved in committee environments for most of my career, I'm slightly skeptical about the gravity of the problem and somewhat suspicious that this was one persons pet subject that has been accepted without full due diligence.

I hope that I am wrong and I am interested to see the figures to back up the new regulation.

The home office is the place to get that info but speaking from experience I've seen many of these fires first hand. I am a firefighter and most of these fires were from plastic units installed before part p or by non registered people.

 

[Plonker 3]

How many of these fires are in domestic premises and how many are in non domestic premises?

How can you distinguish between a fire caused by a bad connection and one caused by faulty parts?

 

[Clark3169]

Customer I have picked had an extension wired by a non registered electrician so it had not been registered for part p
The LBA would not sign it off without part p so they sent there own testing engineer (sub contractor) and charged £300 to test 2 circuits
now if that's the general charge then surely it's best to register to provide a better service to the customer
2 or 3 jobs and the cost to register is cheaper than LBA charges

exactly!!

 

[Clark3169]

How many of these fires are in domestic premises and how many are in non domestic premises?

How can you distinguish between a fire caused by a bad connection and one caused by faulty parts?

fire investigation mate.

 

[ImpededLoop]

The home office is the place to get that info but speaking from experience I've seen many of these fires first hand. I am a firefighter and most of these fires were from plastic units installed before part p or by non registered people.

Fair play. I'll have a look at the Home Office on gov.uk to see what I can find.

Out of interest how many plastic consumer unit fires to you deal with from your station in a year (off the top of your head).

Another thought. Any pre Part P boards would be over ten years old, so how home they have gone for so long before overheating?

 

[Anthony S]

How many fires caused by candle's falling over ? how many fires caused my extension leads ?
How many fires caused by chip pans ?

The list is endless but reckon they out far weigh consumer units fires.

 

[Clark3169]

Right I changed my mind.

If a installation I worked on caused a fire then yes I would know about it as I would have been pulled up for arson due to the fact I always a relevant certificate as in BS7671 sonthey would be able to find out who installed it.

Its the ones who dont issue certs that are the problem, now tell me how does Part P stop this happening?

It doesn't stop it happening it reduces it.

 

[trev]

The semi trained Tesco guys do not necessarily install safe work though, they get the vast majority of their experience in a workshop on a big lump of wood and are then released into the world with some bunch of muppets telling them they're competent. Some will be and some will not. Some will realise they're out of their depth, some will not.
DIY Dave has not been stopped by this farce. I was in a pub just a few nights ago and someone started to crack on to me about electrical work. A guy over heard and suggested the guy talk to someone at the end of the bar who "isn't an electrician but he knows what he's doing" DIY Dve is alive and well mate and still carries on with his botch jobs. It may well have worked where you are but it sure as hell hasn't worked here.
Now, as a trained fire officer you must have undergone some pretty strenuous, intense and demanding training before you were allowed out in the big red truck. How would you and your workmates feel if I was suddenly foisted on you after only a quarter of the training you had to undergo? Of course you'd object because I wouldn't have a fraction of the knowledge you lads have. I'd be a danger to you and to myself but if some muppet somewhere said I was suddenly equal to you then I'm good to go right?
I think you're missing the political aspect of what's going on behind the scenes Clark. The CPS operators were given a chance to deem people competent who had years of experience but no paper quals. They then spotted this as a cash cow, they abused this by badging up anyone and now despite having the failure pointed out to them in BIG HUGE LETTERS they refuse to kill the goose that laid (and keeps on laying) the golden egg.
A proper scheme of registration and licencing for all electricians modelled on Gas Safe will be something that ALL electricians will happily get behind as long as it has a single regulator who is not motivated by money and who has long sharp teeth and the resources and inclination to use them against anyone who transgresses.

 

[davesparks]

First off mate no I am not saying you are incompetent at all. Second you wouldn't message tilt have found out if any of your installs had ever caught fire (I'm sure they haven't though) my point is your a fully qualified spark and install very safe work, the semi trained Tescos guy will install safe work to it's the third category that you missed out which is DIY Dave who will cause the fires and since part p has been introduced it has reduced the number of DIY Daves thus less fires. The experience I was referring to is not you lack of electrical experience it's was the fire experience. I'm a fire officer and have seen the effect part p has had first hand.

Prove that less DIY work has taken place.

Prove that the semi trained idiots do not cause fires!

I have first hand experience of working with some of these people who have done the 5 week courses and have been registered by the scams as being competant, I can tell you they are anything but!

 

[Leesparkykent]

So how does the above concern me ? I issue Certificates and don't belong to a scheme and Building Control sign off my work and my Certificate is given a code number on their system. Therefore I am on record with them as doing the work.

I thought you was with napit?

 

[Clark3169]

How many fires caused by candle's falling over ? how many fires caused my extension leads ?
How many fires caused by chip pans ?

The list is endless but reckon they out far weigh consumer units fires.

Actually no they don't and the list is not endless...

1. Smoking causes
2. White goods such as dishwashers, washing machines & tumble dryers
3. Electrical installations.

 

[davesparks]

Thats simply not true as its part of my job to accurately report these figures and I've seen first hand the positive effect part p has had. I know you love to hate it because it's an expense and a inconvenience to be tested etc... but you can't change the facts that it has made things safer.

So give us some links to these figures, let us all see how much of a difference part P has made.

None of us will take your word for it, none of us know who you are, you could be the CEO of NICEIC for all we know