UK Niceic Assesment

[banny07]

Hi all. My first niceic assesment for joining is coming soon. I want to show my friends house where I installed new fuse board and installed new smoke alarm circuit. My question is what should I fill in sesign and construction section? should I leave it blank?
The house have no cooker or shower circuit only three final circuits which have 3, 5 and 7 double sockets as well as two lighting circuits with 7 and 8 lighting points .Third circuit has only three smoke/heat alarms. Maximum demand will be around 26Amps?
Any advice will be very helpful. Thanks in advance

 

[westward10]

The test instrument/s are identified by serial number. For an existing installation and consumer unit replacement there is no way an assessor would question omitting line to neutral insulation resistance testing, they are existing circuits so the test is irrelevant. Writing twaddle like sensitive equipment etc.... is too much information it is not important.

 

[catdog1121]

The test instrument/s are identified by serial number. For an existing installation and consumer unit replacement there is no way an assessor would question omitting line to neutral insulation resistance testing, they are existing circuits so the test is irrelevant. Writing twaddle like sensitive equipment etc.... is too much information it is not important.

Well that is what I got taught by multiple instructors and tutors. an EICR you can put whatever limitations you want as long as you list them, you can omit entire circuits if you want, say you were doing an EICR for a flooded house, presuming the cu was well above the flood level, there is no point needing to test the upstairs sockets or lighting...

An EIC I was always taught should not have any limitations, although in the real world I agree its not always practicable, my point was putting LIM on all L-N makes it look like he just cant be bothered to do it or is testing like an EICR, where do you stop, LIM on L-CPC just incase. Cant be bothered to do R1+R2, might as well LIM that, and Zs cause you LIM R1+R2 would have to be done live, so might as well LIM that as well..

Different electricians fill out the forms differently and different electricians believe what they do is correct but think about it, in EICR's there is a part for limitations, this is not in an EIC. If limitations were allowed why would you not have the same part that is in an EICR to write limitations in an EIC?

Different assessors focus on different things. Mine last picked me up on not having fire rated clips on my conduit... In a plastic shed... When I pointed this out he was like "Oh um yeah well obviously here its ok but I meant just in general dont forget them."

 

[timhoward]

I'd agree, it now looks fine. I'd missed the variety of > IR readings first time.
I think it's fair enough that you didn't to L->N tests on the existing circuits for a CU change, it's fair enough to note smoke alarms as sensitive (i.e. heads need removing before L-N IR tests in future) and it's good you fully tested the new circuit.
(I would generally agree that avoiding LIM's on an EIC is a good principle to aim for)
But yes, that is a good certificate and could be sent.

Could you please information why insulation reader is lesser when testing between Live-Earth than live- live?

Sorry, I don't have an answer for that. I'd be content the readings exceed GN3 pass values if I were you.
All the best for your assessment.

 

[westward10]

Well that is what I got taught by multiple instructors and tutors. an EICR you can put whatever limitations you want as long as you list them, you can omit entire circuits if you want, say you were doing an EICR for a flooded house, presuming the cu was well above the flood level, there is no point needing to test the upstairs sockets or lighting...

An EIC I was always taught should not have any limitations, although in the real world I agree its not always practicable, my point was putting LIM on all L-N makes it look like he just cant be bothered to do it or is testing like an EICR, where do you stop, LIM on L-CPC just incase. Cant be bothered to do R1+R2, might as well LIM that, and Zs cause you LIM R1+R2 would have to be done live, so might as well LIM that as well..

Different electricians fill out the forms differently and different electricians believe what they do is correct but think about it, in EICR's there is a part for limitations, this is not in an EIC. If limitations were allowed why would you not have the same part that is in an EICR to write limitations in an EIC?

Different assessors focus on different things. Mine last picked me up on not having fire rated clips on my conduit... In a plastic shed... When I pointed this out he was like "Oh um yeah well obviously here its ok but I meant just in general dont forget them."

Yes I agree the EIC should not show Limitations I did not really view it. I just leave them blank no assessor is going to care for an existing installation.

 

[banny07]

Well that is what I got taught by multiple instructors and tutors. an EICR you can put whatever limitations you want as long as you list them, you can omit entire circuits if you want, say you were doing an EICR for a flooded house, presuming the cu was well above the flood level, there is no point needing to test the upstairs sockets or lighting...

An EIC I was always taught should not have any limitations, although in the real world I agree its not always practicable, my point was putting LIM on all L-N makes it look like he just cant be bothered to do it or is testing like an EICR, where do you stop, LIM on L-CPC just incase. Cant be bothered to do R1+R2, might as well LIM that, and Zs cause you LIM R1+R2 would have to be done live, so might as well LIM that as well..

Different electricians fill out the forms differently and different electricians believe what they do is correct but think about it, in EICR's there is a part for limitations, this is not in an EIC. If limitations were allowed why would you not have the same part that is in an EICR to write limitations in an EIC?

Different assessors focus on different things. Mine last picked me up on not having fire rated clips on my conduit... In a plastic shed... When I pointed this out he was like "Oh um yeah well obviously here its ok but I meant just in general dont forget them."

Thanks for your valueable comments. In my humble opinion this is not new installation.I changed the consumer unit and installed a new circuit for smoke alarm .I mentioned this under
"Extent of the installation covered by this Certificate". Please correct me if I am wrong here.Thanks again.

 

[westward10]

Remove all LIMs from your schedule.

 

[banny07]

Remove all LIMs from your schedule.

There are some ceiling fans(with light combined) in the circuits.It will be difficult to disconnect them. Is it okay to swich them off when doing IR? or just leave LIM blank as previously suggested? Thanks

 

[westward10]

There are some ceiling fans(with light combined) in the circuits.It will be difficult to disconnect them. Is it okay to swich them off when doing IR? or just leave LIM blank as previously suggested? Thanks

Just IR test to earth leave the rest blank. Don't faff about disconnecting anything it is pointless just show your tests to earth.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Here is updated installation certificate guys! Please have a look and point out any area I need to improve.Thanks again.

@banny07 , mind if I ask where you got the EIC form from? I use electraform, which gives a professional looking cert, but is tediously slow to use, has a lot of unnecessary extra bits in it, and has glitches. What you have used looks nice and simple

 

[timhoward]

@banny07 , mind if I ask where you got the EIC form from? I use electraform, which gives a professional looking cert, but is tediously slow to use, has a lot of unnecessary extra bits in it, and has glitches. What you have used looks nice and simple

I think he got it from ebay.
I believe the original source is here:

Electrical Installation Certificate

In order to support the electrical community we are providing FREE blank Electrical Installation Certificate forms that can be filled on your PC or can be printed and filled in by hand. PDF version also available for free.

www.electricaltestcertificates.co.uk

You need openoffice for those ones (also free).
I think they have PDF versions too.

 

[banny07]

@banny07 , mind if I ask where you got the EIC form from? I use electraform, which gives a professional looking cert, but is tediously slow to use, has a lot of unnecessary extra bits in it, and has glitches. What you have used looks nice and simple

I bought it off e*bay for about £15, comes with 4 diferent colours of certs.reports,reg books etc.on usb stick.

 

[banny07]

Electraform is worth using if you aren't doing many certs (and even if you are as well). Worth noting all costs are now +VAT though, hardly a deal breaker for its 5 credits for £5+VAT (£6)

There is a "measured kA" coloum in test result section on electaform. Could you please information on that. Thanks in advance.

 

[timhoward]

There is a "measured kA" coloum in test result section on electaform. Could you please information on that. Thanks in advance.

I think it's next to the measured Zs, and it's simply a space to optionally record the prospective fault current that the Zs would allow. So if you had a Zs of 0.80 ohms the tester would probably also tell you a PFC of 300 Amps (based on a measured voltage of 240, so ohms law, 240 / 0.80 = 300 ). So if you wanted to in this example you could write 0.3 KA in there.
I leave it blank most of the time.

 

[banny07]

I think it's next to the measured Zs, and it's simply a space to optionally record the prospective fault current that the Zs would allow. So if you had a Zs of 0.80 ohms the tester would probably also tell you a PFC of 300 Amps (based on a measured voltage of 240, so ohms law, 240 / 0.80 = 300 ). So if you wanted to in this example you could write 0.3 KA in there.
I leave it blank most of the time.

Thanks a lot! My mft did show this value but I did not note it so I will leave it blank at the moment but will note it next time. I am also struggling upload my tester detail, It shows in admin section but not in "circuits and test result" page. Thanks

 

[timhoward]

Thanks a lot! My mft did show this value but I did not note it so I will leave it blank at the moment but will note it next time. I am also struggling upload my tester detail, It shows in admin section but not in "circuits and test result" page. Thanks

I remember that problem Go to Admin > Engineers, add yourself, and specify which tester you are using in the Test Equipment section. I think you might also have to assign the job to yourself, then it all behaves as expected.