No cpc on lighting and no neutral continuity on kitchen ring

[Muzza115]

Hi All,
I recently replaced an old rewirable fuse board for metal split load rcd board. However on testing prior to replacement I noted that one of the lighting circuits doesn’t have a cpc. I’ve put this in the EIC for the new board that no cpc for lights, advised client that needs rewiring and advise against metal fittings accessories etc,is this the right course of action to take? They do already have metal fittings on this circuit, Is rcd protection enough to cover this? Also the kitchen ring has no continuity on the neutral conductor, I’ve had all the accessories off to find it but can’t, I’m assuming the break maybe in a buried joint box as the kitchen is an old extension. What’s the best course of action to take regarding this please?
Thanks

 

[Pete999]

Double post

I've seen a RCD protecting a lighting circuit (with no cpc) trip a RCD....

Do you understand how RCD's work?

For you're last question Murdoch.

 

[sham]

So poor Mrs Jones, who can't deal with BS 3036 fuses anymore will HAVE to have her lighting rewired before you would change a fuseboard ...........................

Bad practice IMHO

What do your scheme say?

 

[sham]

If there is no R1 + R2, it's pointless to have an RCD. Earth continuity, is a must. RCDs are for earth faults. You tell Mrs Jones that you replaced her board with an up to date version but will not have the benefits of a new version, but it's fire protected because it's metal. Might as well change the 3036 fuses to wylex switches in that case, it's more practical.

 

[Toneyz]

More work for you Pete.

 

[sham]

This is irrelevant to this thread - the OP's doing a CU change , not an EICR

Exactly, there can not be any C1 or C2, otherwise he cannot issue an EIC. All has to be earthed and all mcbs and RCDs need to meet the requirements of the regs. I will never issue a EIC knowing that's the earthing to the lighting is not in place and I will tell Mrs Jones, I cannot continue with the board unless she pays me to rectify the issues that will prevent me from issuing an EIC, because I am the one responsible by law, I am the one who signs off the work and I am the one who notifies building authority.

 

[Toneyz]

Bs7671 does not require existing circuits to be upgraded unless they are defective or non-compliant with BS7671 in a way that they would result in the installation being dangerous. There is no legal requirement for the existing to be upgraded.

 

[Octopus]

^^

I am guessing you are NICEIC member ....

 

[Pete999]

Exactly, there can not be any C1 or C2, otherwise he cannot issue an EIC. All has to be earthed and all mcbs and RCDs need to meet the requirements of the regs. I will never issue a EIC knowing that's the earthing to the lighting is not in place and I will tell Mrs Jones, I cannot continue with the board unless she pays me to rectify the issues that will prevent me from issuing an EIC, because I am the one responsible by law, I am the one who signs off the work and I am the one who notifies building authority.

Bs7671 does not require existing circuits to be upgraded unless they are defective or non-compliant with BS7671 in a way that they would result in the installation being dangerous. There is no legal requirement for the existing to be upgraded.

Suggest Sham reads Electrical Safety First, Best Practice Guide No 1, Replacing a Consumers Unit in Domestic and similar premises. Sorry Muzza

 

[Toneyz]

Bs7671 does not require existing circuits to be upgraded unless they are defective or non-compliant with BS7671 in a way that they would result in the installation being dangerous. There is no legal requirement for the existing to be upgraded.

^^

I am guessing you are NICEIC member ....

No, but used to be a Duty holder/Q.S.you don't need to belong to a shame, scheme etc to do things correctly.

 

[Pete999]

^^

I am guessing you are NICEIC member ....

Probably knowing what the NICEIC's stand is.

 

[sham]

Bs7671 does not require existing circuits to be upgraded unless they are defective or non-compliant with BS7671 in a way that they would result in the installation being dangerous. There is no legal requirement for the existing to be upgraded.

But I'm sure you can not change a fuse board if earthing not correct. It defeats the object. If an inspector asks you to carry out an RCD trip test, you are in trouble

 

[Pete999]

Bs7671 does not require existing circuits to be upgraded unless they are defective or non-compliant with BS7671 in a way that they would result in the installation being dangerous. There is no legal requirement for the existing to be upgraded.

No,but used to be a Duty holder/Q.S.

Ignore my last post about NICEIC Ant, thought Murdoch was referring to the OP didn't see the arrows aimed at your post.
I'm out of this one.

 

[Toneyz]

Probably knowing what the NICEIC's stand is.

The standard is know and comply with the regs, do a good job and charge a competitive rate without ripping the customer off.

 

[Toneyz]

. Apparently you could get away without CPC to lighting before, as long as there are no metal switches or fittings. That's all changing now.[/QUOTE]
What is changing?

 

[sham]

Suggest the OP reads Electrical Safety First, Best Practice Guide No 1, Replacing a Consumers Unit in Domestic and similar premises.

Suggest Sham reads Electrical Safety First, Best Practice Guide No 1, Replacing a Consumers Unit in Domestic and similar premises. Sorry Muzza[/QUOTE

You can not there fore issue an EIC then.
From Electrical safety First
4.3. However, circuits that are defective or non-
compliant with the requirements of BS 7671 in a
way that would result in immediate or potential
danger must not be reconnected to the consumer
unit.
.

 

[sham]

Suggest Sham reads Electrical Safety First, Best Practice Guide No 1, Replacing a Consumers Unit in Domestic and similar premises. Sorry Muzza

From Electrical Safety First
However, circuits that are defective or non-
compliant with the requirements of BS 7671 in a
way that would result in immediate or potential
danger must not be reconnected to the consumer
unit.

 

[sham]

. Apparently you could get away without CPC to lighting before, as long as there are no metal switches or fittings. That's all changing now.

What is changing?[/QUOTE]
You cannot report it as an c3 and advise no metal fixtures, there has to be a CPC connected.

 

[Andy78]

What is changing?

You cannot report it as an c3 and advise no metal fixtures, there has to be a CPC connected.[/QUOTE]

The definition of the codes used on eicr are not changing, and neither are the requirements for cpcs. This issue will be no different on a periodic inspection in the 18th to what it is now.

 

[Andy78]

But I'm sure you can not change a fuse board if earthing not correct. It defeats the object. If an inspector asks you to carry out an RCD trip test, you are in trouble

What do you mean regarding the function of RCDs ?

 

[Octopus]

But I'm sure you can not change a fuse board if earthing not correct. It defeats the object. If an inspector asks you to carry out an RCD trip test, you are in trouble

You don't know what you are doing do you.

RCD trip tests are done AT the RCD.

 

[Toneyz]

But I'm sure you can not change a fuse board if earthing not correct. It defeats the object. If an inspector asks you to carry out an RCD trip test, you are in trouble

Is the earthing to the lighting circuit non-existent or not correct? The approach should be persuade the customer remedial action is required if the customer cannot accept the cost or disruption a risk assessment needs to be carried out namely no metal fittings (lights switches etc) and back boxes should be plastic or the lugs made plastic.
As for the RCD you do not need a earth for it to operate.

 

[sham]

You cannot report it as an c3 and advise no metal fixtures, there has to be a CPC connected.

The definition of the codes used on eicr are not changing, and neither are the requirements for cpcs. This issue will be no different on a periodic inspection in the 18th to what it is now.[/QUOTE]

I was reading an IET mag about changes in the 18th, there was a section about CPC to lighting, it's a must now that they have CPC. Regardless of what type of material the fittings and switches are.

 

[Octopus]

I was reading an IET mag about changes in the 18th, there was a section about CPC to lighting, it's a must now that they have CPC. Regardless of what type of material the fittings and switches are.

For installations post 1966, this has always been the case ....

BS 7671 are not applied retrospectively.

Which CPS are you a member of?

 

[Andy78]

I was reading an IET mag about changes in the 18th, there was a section about CPC to lighting, it's a must now that they have CPC. Regardless of what type of material the fittings and switches are.

As Murdoch says, it is currently required anyway. There are no changes to regs in this area.

The IET may however be changing their advice and guidance (additional to the regs) regarding the use of plastic accessories on circuits with no cpc.

Do you have a link to the article ?

 

[sham]

You cannot report it as an c3 and advise no metal fixtures, there has to be a CPC connected.

The definition of the codes used on eicr are not changing, and neither are the requirements for cpcs. This issue will be no different on a periodic inspection in the 18th to what it is now.[/QUOTE]

I was reading an IET mag about changes in the 18th, there was a section about CPC to lighting, it's a must now that they have CPC. Regardless of what type of material the fittings and switches are.

You don't know what you are doing do you.

RCD trip tests are done AT the RCD.

No need for insults, the tester is connected to an appropriate part of the circuit protected by RCD under test.