No cpc on lighting and no neutral continuity on kitchen ring

[Muzza115]

Hi All,
I recently replaced an old rewirable fuse board for metal split load rcd board. However on testing prior to replacement I noted that one of the lighting circuits doesn’t have a cpc. I’ve put this in the EIC for the new board that no cpc for lights, advised client that needs rewiring and advise against metal fittings accessories etc,is this the right course of action to take? They do already have metal fittings on this circuit, Is rcd protection enough to cover this? Also the kitchen ring has no continuity on the neutral conductor, I’ve had all the accessories off to find it but can’t, I’m assuming the break maybe in a buried joint box as the kitchen is an old extension. What’s the best course of action to take regarding this please?
Thanks

 

[Dave OCD]

And unless you take a bit of a scientific approach with additional testing it'll always be the very last socket that you open up with the dodgy connection.

 

[Andy78]

And unless you take a bit of a scientific approach with additional testing it'll always be the very last socket that you open up with the dodgy connection.

It's always the last socket. Why would you open more when you've found the fault ?

 

[DPG]

Decide which one you are going to start with, then change your mind and go for one at the other end. Then you will always find it at the first one. Simple. Not in the On-site Guide that one.

 

[Octopus]

It's always the last socket. Why would you open more when you've found the fault ?

The way I do it normally means only opening 2 maximum ..........

 

[telectrix]

or a wood butcher hanging a cabinet above a socket. seen that t'other week. rawlplug and screw straight through a T/E 2.5mm.

 

[Muzza115]

I’ve checked all the Spurs/Sockets Murdoch. I’ll definitely have to make it two radials as I’m certain it’ll be in a buried joint box.

 

[Octopus]

I’ve checked all the Spurs/Sockets Murdoch. I’ll definitely have to make it two radials as I’m certain it’ll be in a buried joint box.

so you must know between 2 outlets where the issue is then?

 

[Muzza115]

Not yet, just checked visually. Obvs. will investigate further. Cheers

 

[Octopus]

^^ when you are looking for lack of continuity a visual check is a waste of time

 

[Muzza115]

Agreed, but was looking for something obvious, disconnection at a spur/Socket. Will split the ring and work my way back to the board. Cheers

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Do you know which sockets/outlets the break is between? as if you intend to change the protective device to 20A the NICEIC will take a dim view of the live being left as a ring you will need to test as two radials below earth loop limit. The loading, diversity and distribution of
the sockets would be a factor especially as it is feeding the kitchen.

As above, a faulty ring energised with a lower value ocpd is still an energised circuit with known faults.

The fault was already energised before being discovered, the addition of a 20a OCPD would in my opinion be an acceptable temporary measure as long as the inspector can see that a plan is in place to rectify.

 

[sham]

I have noted on the EIC that these need rectifying. And the client is a family friend who will listen to my advice. I was also going to use this job to show NICEIC inspector for domestic installer, as is the only one close enough that fits the criteria Would you advise that I do these remedials before the inspection, will he out right tell me to do one or accredit me once I prove the remedials are done? Thanks

Yes, inspector will make you fix these issues and will lecture you, the installation has to be fit enough for the consumer board so fault trips meet regulation requirements. Also the regs have set in place that all lighting be earthed, I think it will be introduced in the 18th edition. Plus you have to notify building authority, so if anything does go wrong, your name is on the papers.

 

[Andy78]

Yes, inspector will make you fix these issues and will lecture you, the installation has to be fit enough for the consumer board so fault trips meet regulation requirements. Also the regs have set in place that all lighting be earthed, I think it will be introduced in the 18th edition. Plus you have to notify building authority, so if anything does go wrong, your name is on the papers.

I believe the requirement for protective conductors in lighting circuits was introduced in 1966.

 

[sham]

In your situation I would advise the customer that the installation has to be checked as the consumer board is different to the previous one. It has to meet a particular standard before it can be changed over, otherwise the board will not work as it should, then a new board just defeats the object even if it is metal.

 

[sham]

I believe the requirement for protective conductors in lighting circuits was introduced in 1966.

Oh, I mean that if there was no CPC before it was advised that no metal fittings were fitted, but now they have to be earthed no matter what. Even if there is no earth point, all cables in and out should be earthed with connector. For R1 +R2 reasons cables in zones and walls be RCD protected.