No earth in lighting circuit what next?

[Elliott96]

Im sure this has probably been asked before in this forum but ive just upgraded a fuseboard today and found no earth in the lighting (two core). Obviously the next thing to do would be to tell the customer either rewire or change everything on that circuit to class 2 fittings and accessories, but in this case the customer didnt want to go ahead with either.... what should i do? Cutting the circuit out would be abit extreme?

 

[GMES]

Agree with your first point, perhaps the OP has learned something new, like we all do every day.

Disagree with your last point, otherwise he wouldn't of posted the thread in the first place.

I'm not going to agree or disagree mate until I go back and 're read it, as he energised it or not, if he has then that is my argument, I fully appreciate we can all drop clangers, and anyone who's says they are are lying but a couple of dead tests beforehand would have highlighted this.

 

[Elliott96]

On the initial site visit for the estimate drop off one switch, check for bonding etc.. On the day carry out your tests before removing the old fuse-box and probe all metal fittings with the wander lead. If you get any dubious readings or low IRs bring to the customer's attention before commencing. Have a separate price for the testing on the estimate and if necessary walk.

So charge them for taking a few R2’s and if there not happy then dont do the job? How much are you charging for the “pre fuseboard” checks?

I think the main issue here is if he had done a few basic tests he would have found the lighting had no doc.
At that point he should have had a conversation with the client, if they refused to have it rectified he should have walked away. Instead he as swapped the Db and then energised a dangerous circuit. And sèems to have adopted a don't care attitude.

I havent adopted a dont care attitude at all I realise i should of tested before the db was changed but it has been done now and this is the situation i am in. Which i why i am looking for advice.... if i didnt care i wouldn't of spoke to the customer about changing the accessories or rewiring.

 

[magnoliafan89]

So charge them for taking a few R2’s and if there not happy then dont do the job? How much are you charging for the “pre fuseboard” checks?

If you do a couple of dead tests which lets face it dont take long and find a fault, you inform the client who in most cases would be happy to have it rectified for a small fee but if they said no just do what they asked its one of them things youd just have to take on the chin and walk away knowing you dont have to have that hassle

 

[GMES]

So charge them for taking a few R2’s and if there not happy then dont do the job? How much are you charging for the “pre fuseboard” checks?

I havent adopted a dont care attitude at all I realise i should of tested before the db was changed but it has been done now and this is the situation i am in. Which i why i am looking for advice.... if i didnt care i wouldn't of spoke to the customer about changing the accessories or rewiring.

Elliot firstly this is not personal I am not trying to attack your character , you are probably a decent guy, but when you say you haven't adopted a don't care attitude, didn't you say a few posts back you were going to take your cash and a bad review.
It is only my opinion but I think you are at fault for doing the job without relevant pre-checks and should now put it right at your own expense.
I would much rather take a financial hit but receive a great review, but that's me, we are all different.

 

[peterhyper]

I have to agree with Murdoch, we have turned up to an old 3036 board often with no gas or water bond, undersized tails, undersized main earth conductor, and often connections not great. We have replaced the board with a C/U with RCDs, sorted all the other issues out and improved its safety. But some of the lights don't have a cpc, so we've highlighted this verbally to the customer, also in writing and put a warning sign on the C/U regards the danger etc.

The likelyhood of this ever ending up in court is very very very slim, but if it did I am confident that I left the customer's installation far safer than how I found it and I have clearly highlighted the issue with the light circuit having no cpc and I can't physically do anymore. The lighting circuit was there before I arrived, I didn't cause the lack of cpc problem n the lights, but I have definitely improved the safety of the customer's installation.

When I put my car in for a service and the mechanic tells me my brakes are dangerous and I refuse to pay him to fix them, is he then responsible if I have an accident due to my brakes failing. Of course he's not responsible, he can't force me to pay him to fix my brakes just I can't force the customer to pay to have their light circuit sorted.

 

[DPG]

But the mechanic wouldn't replace your brake pads if the discs were shot to pieces.

 

[buzzlightyear]

the begging question why did he not do a wonder lead job before hand to see if he had any cpc to the board.

 

[peterhyper]

But the mechanic wouldn't replace your brake pads if the discs were shot to pieces.

From my experience I'm sure he would if money was going in his pocket.

 

[peterhyper]

the begging question why did he not do a wonder lead job before hand to see if he had any cpc to the board.

We can only but wonder.

 

[Elliott96]

the begging question why did he not do a wonder lead job before hand to see if he had any cpc to the board.

Its all to do with cost isnt it... i dont charge for quotes on a fuseboard but after this i will be.

 

[magnoliafan89]

A few dead tests beforehand and informing the client who would've said no just change the cu wouldve cost you a bit of time...well not much but you could've saved yourself the hassle of changing this board walked away and not have to have worried about this job.
This client may present to be a problem in the future...what if another electrician goes there sees youve changed the board and is of the opinion of most of the people replying and thinks 'ooo rough, i wouldnt have done that' the client names you and then you get a bad rep.
that hour (if that) of dead tests where you could've explained to the client and walked away, begs the question whats more valuable a little bit of time or your reputation?

If you had done the tests and then informed the client there were faults and they were happy for you to rectify them...bonus...you can factor this into a new price agreed with them that includes the time spent doing pre checks.

 

[Midwest]

When I did a simple CU replacement, I’d allow day & half labour. Never priced to do EICR beforehand. However the day before (or whatever), I’d do some testing (as described by others), to make sure there were no issues; I know many others here do the same.
If there were, that would be extra to rectify. But I certainly wouldn’t, as others are suggesting here, do it free of charge.

 

[peterhyper]

Its all to do with cost isnt it... i dont charge for quotes on a fuseboard but after this i will be.

Good luck with people actually paying you for a quote when all the other sparks in your area give free quotes.

 

[DPG]

It's been an interesting discussion this, and hopefully useful.

 

[snowhead]

There seems to be a few opinions that the O.P should correct the situation free of charge.
The Customer has already said no to alterations.

What next when the O.P says to the customer that he's going to rip plaster off the walls to rewire with T&E to all the switch points and rip up floor boards to get to lighting points free of charge and the customer still says No or says if so then the O.P will have to pay to have the whole house redecorated?