Replacement shower

[keniff]

If your replacing a shower like for like power wise, are you under any obligation to supply rcd for this? As no alteration has been made to the circuit and no change of opd has been done?

 

[Geoffsd]

Triton:
The following notes are for guidance only:
5.1 A 30mA residual current device (RCD) must
be installed in all UK electric and pumped
shower circuits. This may be part of the
consumer unit or a separate unit.

Gainsborough:
IN THE INTERESTS OF ELECTRICAL SAFETY, A 30mA RESIDUAL CURRENT DEVICE (RCD) SHOULD BE INSTALLED IN ALL
UK 230-240V ELECTRIC SHOWERS. THIS MAY BE PART OF A CONSUMER UNIT OR A SEPARATE UNIT.

Mira:
It is strongly recommended that a 30 mA Residual Current Device (RCD) is
included in the electrical circuit. This may be part of the consumer unit or a separate unit.

Aqualisa:
IN THE INTERESTS OF ELECTRICAL SAFETY, A 30mA RESIDUAL CURRENTDEVICE (RCD) SHOULD BE INSTALLED IN ALL UK 230-240V ELECTRIC
SHOWERS AND PUMPED CIRCUITS. THIS MAY BE PART OF A CONSUMER
UNIT OR A SEPERATE UNIT.

Creda and MX don't mention anything about RCDs whatsoever.

Who are these manufacturers' that state an RCD must be fitted in their instructions?

It's interesting that the instructions vary but the last line is identical in all of them.

 

[onions1066]

Regulation 701.411.3.3
In specific locations such as those containing a bath or shower there is a requirement to provide RCD protection on all circuits, including the lighting and shower circuits.

That regulation along with manufactures instructions is enough for me to interpret rcd protection is required

 

[keniff]

Well for my peice of mind I'm going to fit a rcd but this then means I'm going to have to upgrade the bonding and probably price me out of it, but to be fair I have always thought on a like for like swap no obligation to bring it up to 17th regs. Glad I got both sides of the arguments though! Thanks guys

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think that's so people won't be put off thinking they'll have to have a new CU.
However all of the instructions recomend that MCBs are used, some actually state that re-wireable fuses are not to be used.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Regulation 701.411.3.3
In specific locations such as those containing a bath or shower there is a requirement to provide RCD protection on all circuits, including the lighting and shower circuits.

That regulation along with manufactures instructions is enough for me to interpret rcd protection is required

The OP is not installing a circuit.
He is replacing an item of equimpent.
As such there is no requirement for him to install RCD protection.

 

[keniff]

Onions if you had a call out for a broken pull cord in a bathroom would you insist on an rcd upon replacement? Not being funny just curious don't take it the wrong way just that's what that reg states right?

 

[onions1066]

The OP is not installing a circuit.
He is replacing an item of equimpent.
As such there is no requirement for him to install RCD protection.

I was just quoting that along with the instructions as a pair. Stating that is enough for me to rcd protect

 

[onions1066]

A piece of current carrying equipment of 9.5kw is not the same as a pulls switch. Not comparing eggs with eggs.
To be honest I pretty much insist on full rcd protection for most domestic situations I encounter, if the client doesn't want this go elsewhere, it's simple.

 

[Sparkyphill]

I was just quoting that along with the instructions as a pair. Stating that is enough for me to rcd protect

As with previous "chats" i've had on here regarding RCD protection I would RECOMMEND to the customer that one is installed however in this case your not obliged to fit one

 

[onions1066]

This conversation is what I believe is half the problem of what is belittling our trade, guys working to the minimum standard rather than the higher standard which I would expect from fully qualified electricians. If we all worked to a higher standard customers would expect to pay the price for a quality job but unfortunately there are people out there working to a minimum standard which people producing a quality SAFE job cannot compete with. It's all good until there is another accident then people will say, " I wish I put an rcd on that shower " too late. Just my opinion.

 

[keniff]

I completely agree but I was just pointing out that if a light or shower or socket front etc need replacing where do you draw the line with regards to adding rcd in like for like, In the real world I do recommend rcd but I don't think they are the be all and end all I see them as a second to good earthing and correct selection of opd

 

[Deleted member 26818]

This conversation is what I believe is half the problem of what is belittling our trade, guys working to the minimum standard rather than the higher standard which I would expect from fully qualified electricians. If we all worked to a higher standard customers would expect to pay the price for a quality job but unfortunately there are people out there working to a minimum standard which people producing a quality SAFE job cannot compete with. It's all good until there is another accident then people will say, " I wish I put an rcd on that shower " too late. Just my opinion.

That is not the case at all.
As far as I'm concerned, we are discussing the requirements of the Regulations.
The fact that you, I or anyone else would fit an RCD, does not therefore mean that it is a requiremnt of the Regulations that an RCD be fitted.
The fact that electric showers have been fitted for donkeys years without RCD protection is neither here nor there.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I completely agree but I was just pointing out that if a light or shower or socket front etc need replacing where do you draw the line with regards to adding rcd in like for like, In the real world I do recommend rcd but I don't think they are the be all and end all I see them as a second to good earthing and correct selection of opd

look, given the nature of what were dealing with here (shower) whether or not the maufacurers state that RCD protection is to be installed is neither here nor there....it surely would be prudent to put the damn thing on an RCD....its about using your own judgement as well....i mean what happened to that eh?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

and i find it highly unlikely that an RCD wouldn`t be mentioned within manufactures instructions anyway

 

[Deleted member 26818]

and i find it highly unlikely that an RCD wouldn`t be mentioned within manufactures instructions anyway

They are mentioned in some manufacturers' instructions, but in those instances it's only as a recommendation that one be installed.
As can be seen from the quotes I posted in my earlier post.