Ring vs Radial

[vjsmarwick]

It's true we are sold things every day with claimed long life push fit connectors led lights plastic windows windmills all just pipe dreams.
Only time will tell but do far plastic windows are not doing what was initially claimed I am sure the next will be the windmills already proving problem some up here but maybe just too windy here.

 

[hermetic]

Decent quality ones are better than screw terminals in that respect. They will to a degree move to take up slack created by the expansion and contraction causing a thin section, whereas screw terminals require periodic tightening to take it up.

Given that we have been using screw terminations virtually since the dawn of electrical installation, we wont know if push fits are better for a long long time regardless of the quality. The phrase, "decent ones" also reveals that there are some out there that ppl consider are not decent, so I guess they will catch fire first!
Phil

 

[hermetic]

And I think for better you really mean "cheaper and faster"

 

[ayjay]

thailand has lovely electrics
and heath&safety-not
notice the guy hanging off the balcony by one hand , drilling fixings for the aircon unit

the power(400v) & comms

400 v hext to the balcony

earthing is anathema to them
i love the place tho

aww cats on the pavement---

 

[vjsmarwick]

Was just re reading this post and not sure its right but i may be wrong "the vast majority of the housing stock in this country was rewired for the first time between about 1960 and 1980. they were all wired with 13amp sockets and ring mains under the IEE regs which stated "any number of sockets on a ring and any number of sockets on a spur so long as the number of sockets on spurs does not exceed the number of sockets on the ring, and the whole does not exceed a floorspace of 100 sq M." the vast majority of these houses are wired in T/E pvc cables, and will not be rewired in the foreseeable future, hence the downturn in work we have all experienced in the last 10-20 years. "
Remembering back I think it was as many sockets on the ring but only one spur from each socket on the ring.
Please correct me if I am wrong !

 

[Echo]

I'm a radial fan boy, that's not because I'm ignorant or inexperienced (although I'll be the first to agree there are people with far more experience on here than me!) it's because I find them easier. Easier to install, easier to test, easier to fault find.

However I do agree that they should be only used in suitable circumstances. I wouldn't like them to become the norm and lose the ring for ever. In a domestic situation we always install a ring in the kitchen, and then the rest is determined by number of outlets, distance and likely loads.

Our NICEIC assessor has also mentioned something about rings becoming extinct? I hadn't heard of anything before but he was saying we are the only country in the world to use the ring circuit, then he contradicted himself by saying some countries use our regs so they also use rings. Make of that what you wish.......:whatchutalkingabout

 

[ipf]

I'm a radial fan boy, that's not because I'm ignorant or inexperienced (although I'll be the first to agree there are people with far more experience on here than me!) it's because I find them easier. Easier to install, easier to test, easier to fault find.

However I do agree that they should be only used in suitable circumstances. I wouldn't like them to become the norm and lose the ring for ever. In a domestic situation we always install a ring in the kitchen, and then the rest is determined by number of outlets, distance and likely loads.

Our NICEIC assessor has also mentioned something about rings becoming extinct? I hadn't heard of anything before but he was saying we are the only country in the world to use the ring circuit, then he contradicted himself by saying some countries use our regs so they also use rings. Make of that what you wish.......:whatchutalkingabout

Rings extinct ? Certainly not in my lifetime. It must be said though, I fear the best standards in the world really are on a downward curve.

 

[Guitarist]

good point, how do they know they will not all come loose in 10 years?!

Have a look at the old Wago video. It's from the 50's
I think we can safely say that the connectors are "fit for purpose".

 

[hermetic]

"Remembering back I think it was as many sockets on the ring but only one spur from each socket on the ring.
Please correct me if I am wrong !"

No, you are not wrong, I didn't go into that much detail, as you say 14ed 1970 says in A38 "the total number of spurs shall not exceed the total number of socket outlets and stationary appliances connected directly to the ring"
Phil.

Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ns/63508-ring-vs-radial-10.html#ixzz28DniANvj
​

 

[hermetic]

Have a look at the old Wago video. It's from the 50's
I think we can safely say that the connectors are "fit for purpose".

Can you provide a link to the video please, I have searched and can't find it. I did find some very dodgy DIY site videos about using wago,s, which also emphasized how deadly dangerous screw terminal junction boxes are (LOLS!! Not really a thinly disguised bit of propaganda advertising then!) , which use the "compliance buzzwords" maintenance free. in actual fact, maintenance impossible would be more accurate, and the idea that you can put any cable junction in a place where it cannot be accessed is fatally flawed. For instance, DNO connections buried underground are "maintenance free" until the junction fails and blows up!, then the DNO comes out, digs up the road, and replaces it!

 

[Tonytigers]

Nicely put!

 

[gonefishing]

The days of running radials and ring circuits are coming to an end we have no need for 230 volts around the home apart from hoover, kettle. wash machine and most high power kitchen stuff and possible shower most of the other items would run very well at 5 volts, LED's as well. The NICEIC and others have developed the idea and have working systems in place , so I'm told. How's it done?..easy.. remove all the transformers that all the manufactures of IT, TV's and other equipment put in everything we use nowadays. It would certainly help the world's resources to reduce the amount of transformers that are produced every year.
Apparently, there is some opposition from the manufactures of PC's, TV's etc. and electricity supply companies, can imagine why though !!. Most of us already buy something near 240 volts when we only need the 220 volts which of course most appliances run best at this voltage. Think of data cables over the house with a simple plug hidden in skirting or some sort other conduit system. The only circuits would be 230 volts for hoover, so 1 on the landing and the other circuits all in the kitchen, perhaps an electrical shower. LED for total lighting and data cables easily added to. Don't know what it would do for us electricians though?

 

[ipf]

The days of running radials and ring circuits are coming to an end we have no need for 230 volts around the home apart from hoover, kettle. wash machine and most high power kitchen stuff and possible shower most of the other items would run very well at 5 volts, LED's as well. The NICEIC and others have developed the idea and have working systems in place , so I'm told. How's it done?..easy.. remove all the transformers that all the manufactures of IT, TV's and other equipment put in everything we use nowadays. It would certainly help the world's resources to reduce the amount of transformers that are produced every year.
Apparently, there is some opposition from the manufactures of PC's, TV's etc. and electricity supply companies, can imagine why though !!. Most of us already buy something near 240 volts when we only need the 220 volts which of course most appliances run best at this voltage. Think of data cables over the house with a simple plug hidden in skirting or some sort other conduit system. The only circuits would be 230 volts for hoover, so 1 on the landing and the other circuits all in the kitchen, perhaps an electrical shower. LED for total lighting and data cables easily added to. Don't know what it would do for us electricians though?

Long way off yet, I feel. Ask the local authorities to sort out all the council houses and see what they say....Budget, what budget ?
New builds....maybe, but not for a while.

 

[Adam W]

The days of running radials and ring circuits are coming to an end we have no need for 230 volts around the home apart from hoover, kettle. wash machine and most high power kitchen stuff and possible shower most of the other items would run very well at 5 volts, LED's as well. The NICEIC and others have developed the idea and have working systems in place , so I'm told. How's it done?..easy.. remove all the transformers that all the manufactures of IT, TV's and other equipment put in everything we use nowadays. It would certainly help the world's resources to reduce the amount of transformers that are produced every year.
Apparently, there is some opposition from the manufactures of PC's, TV's etc. and electricity supply companies, can imagine why though !!. Most of us already buy something near 240 volts when we only need the 220 volts which of course most appliances run best at this voltage. Think of data cables over the house with a simple plug hidden in skirting or some sort other conduit system. The only circuits would be 230 volts for hoover, so 1 on the landing and the other circuits all in the kitchen, perhaps an electrical shower. LED for total lighting and data cables easily added to. Don't know what it would do for us electricians though?

Really?
You'd rewire your house for ELV, eg most sockets 24v and just a couple of 230v sockets for the appliances you mentioned?
If you consider volt drop you'd most likely need something like several 4mm radials. Then of course you would need several 230v sockets around the house so you can plug the vacuum cleaner in in different places. Then of course you'd need 2 supplies, at different voltages, again probably using thicker cable to counter volt drop, which would be at ELV so easier and more attractive for some scallywag to steal and make your freezer defrost.

It'd be cheaper and easier to move to somewhere like America, where they use silly voltages.

I think you're pulling my leg.

 

[MDJ]

multiple radial circuits are far better than a couple of rings, obviously the negative side is a larger consumer unit, the positive side is the fact you can reduce load by balancing across several circuits, a no brainer IMO.