Seem to find time wasters

[brodders97]

Hi all,

I’ve not long started out on my own, and so because of this I try to keep my quotes down to generate business to start, but I seem to spend half my time giving out estimations to people and that’s the end of it. I seem to only find tire kickers.

I know my prices are on the lower side, I believe I present myself well, chat to the customers a little while and get to know them etc, but when I sent the price out they’re never to be heard from again, and if they do reply, it’s always the same, too expensive!!!

For example, yesterday I priced one up, 2 days work. £800 in total including around £400 materials, to get told I’m too expensive… it seems most people want something for nothing.

Anyway, my question is, is this experienced by most tradesmen, or is it just my luck at the moment?

Cheers

 

[Welchyboy1]

Awkward to avoid paying tax if you are supplying invoices.

And certificates and part P notifications

You would be a silly boy to not put it through the books

 

[LukeD]

And certificates and part P notifications

You would be a silly boy to not put it through the books

Question....what parts link up to HMRC these days ? Unless they come to check you the chances are very very few people will use their side of the paper trail for tax reasons .The chances of things linking together and forming a issue are supper slim. But still not worth it !

 

[nicebutdim]

Question....what parts link up to HMRC these days ? Unless they come to check you the chances are very very few people will use their side of the paper trail for tax reasons .The chances of things linking together and forming a issue are supper slim. But still not worth it !

I'm guessing you've never been subjected to a tax or VAT inspection.

 

[LukeD]

Tax only (NOT VAT) only 4 times in 30 odd years . I Always use very very well known and respected accountants that have a good reputation with HMRC .Friends who use the low end dodgy lot seem to get more trouble ! The accountants always say .."tell us the truth , we do the rest " .It just not worth the pain. Ive seen a guy who was 100% innocent (This time ) get hauled over for a year and it nearly cost him his marriage . All because he had tried playing around before

 

[mainline]

Question....what parts link up to HMRC these days ? Unless they come to check you the chances are very very few people will use their side of the paper trail for tax reasons .The chances of things linking together and forming a issue are supper slim. But still not worth it !

A friend of mine self-employed not vat registered did work on a regular basis for many years for a company who had their accounts checked this led back to him cost him, £12000.

 

[nicebutdim]

Tax only (NOT VAT) only 4 times in 30 odd years . I Always use very very well known and respected accountants that have a good reputation with HMRC .Friends who use the low end dodgy lot seem to get more trouble ! The accountants always say .."tell us the truth , we do the rest " .It just not worth the pain. Ive seen a guy who was 100% innocent (This time ) get hauled over for a year and it nearly cost him his marriage . All because he had tried playing around before

In that you wouldn't consider not declaring income, regardless of how payment was made, and shouldn't have any reason to be concerned about accepting cash if that suits a customer.

 

[LukeD]

In that you wouldn't consider not declaring income, regardless of how payment was made, and shouldn't have any reason to be concerned about accepting cash if that suits a customer.

I fully declare every penny I earn via the business . I Cannot be bothered with grief

 

[pirate]

The "no VAT" for cash payment is a scam in itself anyway. How much? £100 +VAT, but £100 for cash...
So, I pay £100, and save £20, but you, Mr. tradesperson, still get £100, whereas if I pay you £120, you get £100 and pay the VAT-man £20...and then you pay 40% tax on the £100, so you get £60. thus, for cash, you get £100, and save £40 in tax plus don't have to do the VAT paperwork...OK, I'll pay £80 for cash...seems fair?
Very nice chap came to service my daughter's gas boiler. It needed some minor work, bill was £180 including VAT. it was lockdown time, so I met him at the flat and gave him the £180 in cash and off he went. 2 minutes later he's back at the door, hands me some money and says "You don't need to pay the VAT if you are paying in cash"...Nice guy!

 

[Pretty Mouth]

So, I pay £100, and save £20, but you, Mr. tradesperson, still get £100, whereas if I pay you £120, you get £100 and pay the VAT-man £20...and then you pay 40% tax on the £100, so you get £60. thus, for cash, you get £100, and save £40 in tax plus don't have to do the VAT paperwork...OK, I'll pay £80 for cash...seems fair?

I see it the other way. Mr Tradesperson is the one assuming all of the risk. If (s)he is to commit a crime, then why do it for the customer's benefit?

 

[UNG]

Plus the time to go to the bank.....

Given all the bank closures it is getting more difficult to get to one these days

 

[Intoelectrics]

Going way back to when I was a teen ager and I worked for a big retailer , I am sure I read in the handbook that roughly 3.5%-4% of the rrp price was to cover for 'shrinkage' which is basically theft , breakages and faulty returns etc

Yep good point,

This is standard and good practice for most firms. The biggest mistake many people make when running a business is to not making sure that ALL costs are covered and with some contingency when quoting jobs. Its quite easy, especially as a sole trader, to neglect hidden costs or one off payments and not consider these in your pricing. At the end of the day you should be earning a decent living and making at the very least a small profit else you are on a downward spiral or at best constantly treading water. At this point you may as well just go cards in and stress free.

I've fell foul many times to being a busy fool to no benefit of my own. These days I'd rather sit at home than work for nowt. But I can understand someone who is starting out in business needs to be keen and establish things. Unfortunately this means there will be some "down" moments and some losses. The trick is to try and cover this off in the "up" moments.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The first few years in business you will absorb a few hits and certain jobs will be less profitable as they simply take you longer than you priced for. Small jobs like small occupied re-wires can often be more time consuming than massive jobs/

I certainly have under-estimated how long jobs would take on many many occasions, and still sometimes look at a job and reckon it will take me 3 long days when in reality I know it will run to 4 or maybe even 5 days.

The key is as you say to mitigate these loses by making maximum profit on other jobs. Like if you can make a £1000 profit on a 1 day board swap , this will afford you an extra day that month when you are faffing about trying to get other jobs completed in your own time

 

[Diddy]

I'm guessing you've never been subjected to a tax or VAT inspection.

My cousin who actually had done nothing wrong copped a random tax and vat inspection. He was looking at £12k because of some cash going through his personal account that he couldn't account for (Just poor book keeping). His accountant was/is an ex employee of HMRC, he advised him to get to the doc and tell him he had depression. He did this then the accountant informed HMRC that this protracted investigation into a stressed man's affairs was making him more ill. Tax inspector closed the case and wrote it off. True story that. BTW it turns out said cousin WAS actually suffering from stress/depression and still receives treatment to this day.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My last VAT inspection (some years back) two inspectors for three days, they owed me just under £1.00, amazing waste of our combined time, why do they target small business's, because it's easier to inspect them and not have to deal with company accountants, and with big business's they would be out of their depth under reams of paper.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I have heard this actually, I thought living in the area I live in, keeping prices low would appeal to the masses. I guess by doing this I’m attracting the wrong kind of people haha. Time for a switch up perhaps

Whenever I go along to a quote I make sure I am clean shaved. I keep my work clothes on, but they are clean, not covered in grime and dust. I always put my fancy overlay shoes on when I walk in, this gets noticed and commented on. I take as long as is needed with the customer so they feel they are being listened to (which they are). I then write the quote up within a few days, but I take time writing the quote so it is well written and without spelling mistakes. All this takes a bit of extra time, but I charge £350 a day labour and get 95% of my quotes.

I think some people feel discouraged by a too low a price.