Socket ring circuit 6mm to 2.5mm - interesting!

[kkkkk]

Hi all
Working on a site with a general builder who planned on doing all the electrical work - total rewire - on the job, and is miffed because the home owner decided to call in a qualified electrician and get his certificates - builder has run some lighting cables, any old cable he had lying about (4 core/immersion heater cable/etc), which I'm replacing - and told us that he was going to run the ring circuit to start in 6mm T&E from the Consumer Unit, then (after an unspecified distance) to a junction box to split into 2 x 2.5mm T&E. Obviously he wasn't going to test, or notify, or certificate the work. Like to see the comments

 

[Pete999]

I have spoken to NIC & a "lollipop" ring circuit is described as being unconventional, not incorrect, but not advisable - as said, it has been used when alterations were done in existing wiring where an old cooker circuit has been used. The main reason it is not a good idea is for the future, when testing is done and the joint where the 6mm joins the 2.5mm cannot be tested, as it would normally be hidden from sight and probably inaccessible, plus a future tester would not know the format of the circuit. Thanks everyone for your input, I had not heard of this before.

Summat else The NICEIC have made up then

 

[sparksburnout]

I have spoken to NIC & a "lollipop" ring circuit is described as being unconventional, not incorrect, but not advisable - as said, it has been used when alterations were done in existing wiring where an old cooker circuit has been used. The main reason it is not a good idea is for the future, when testing is done and the joint where the 6mm joins the 2.5mm cannot be tested, as it would normally be hidden from sight and probably inaccessible, plus a future tester would not know the format of the circuit. Thanks everyone for your input, I had not heard of this before.

Your responses are very typical of someone who does not have the ability to work out of the comfort zone encouraged by individuals and organisations who lack experience. Why do you feel the need to keep referring to the NIC, and just repeat their comments, which are obviously designed to placate "electricians" who have no ability to operate "outside the box".

 

[johnduffell]

To be honest even if it wasn't specifically allowed by the regs, you're allowed to record deviations to the regs.
Contrary to common belief, those are not a list of non compliances for any reason, they are a list of things that don't comply with the regs but do provide an equivalent level of safety etc.
If lollipop circuits were not otherwise allowed, you could easily infer them as being a deviation. You could make circuits of all sorts of topologies, although the documentation required might not make it practical for domestic.

 

[kkkkk]

Your responses are very typical of someone who does not have the ability to work out of the comfort zone encouraged by individuals and organisations who lack experience. Why do you feel the need to keep referring to the NIC, and just repeat their comments, which are obviously designed to placate "electricians" who have no ability to operate "outside the box".

I don't think there is a need to get personal - and I see nowhere where I "keep" referring to the NIC - I said on the post earlier that I would ask their opinion, then I posted their opinion - this was merely for information and is not my opinion - I have already stated that I had not heard of this method before. Most people are very pleasant and helpful on this forum, but there are a few that make me hesitate to get involved any further.

 

[Octopus]

I have spoken to NIC & a "lollipop" ring circuit is described as being unconventional, not incorrect, but not advisable - as said, it has been used when alterations were done in existing wiring where an old cooker circuit has been used. The main reason it is not a good idea is for the future, when testing is done and the joint where the 6mm joins the 2.5mm cannot be tested, as it would normally be hidden from sight and probably inaccessible, plus a future tester would not know the format of the circuit. Thanks everyone for your input, I had not heard of this before.

That's 1 massive generalisation.

The only time I "adapted" an old cooker circuit I had to use a JB and this was accessible - all be it you had to remove a kick board to get to it - this was on the certificate.

As for not advisable - that's pure rubbish

Wonder what regs they quoted to back up these claims

 

[sparksburnout]

I don't think there is a need to get personal - and I see nowhere where I "keep" referring to the NIC - I said on the post earlier that I would ask their opinion, then I posted their opinion - this was merely for information and is not my opinion - I have already stated that I had not heard of this method before. Most people are very pleasant and helpful on this forum, but there are a few that make me hesitate to get involved any further.

I was not getting "personal", rather, I find it hard to understand why experienced sparks would ask the NIC (or anyone else for that matter) for guidance or comfort on such an issue. If it is not your opinion why are you trotting it out on here??

 

[ferg]

I have on several occasions when moving a CU used a DIN rail mounted JB for the original terminations and used 6mm2 from the new CU to the JB

 

[JK-Electrical]

Common issues relating to hybrid ring/radial final circuits - https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/common-issues-relating-hybrid

 

[Octopus]

Common issues relating to hybrid ring/radial final circuits - https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/common-issues-relating-hybrid

That's well written ............. and is pretty much my understanding of what I have done/ would do in the future.

 

[DPG]

And it proves that the NIC do recognise this form of circuit.

The excuse that connections may not be accessible could apply to any circuit and is therefore irrelevant to the argument.

 

[telectrix]

 

[Briggs69]

Hi all
Working on a site with a general builder who planned on doing all the electrical work - total rewire - on the job, and is miffed because the home owner decided to call in a qualified electrician and get his certificates - builder has run some lighting cables, any old cable he had lying about (4 core/immersion heater cable/etc), which I'm replacing - and told us that he was going to run the ring circuit to start in 6mm T&E from the Consumer Unit, then (after an unspecified distance) to a junction box to split into 2 x 2.5mm T&E. Obviously he wasn't going to test, or notify, or certificate the work. Like to see the comments [/QUOTE

It’s called a hybrid ring circuit.its perfectly legal.as long as it’s into a junction box or a 30amp switch.niceic have a drawing somewhere showing you it.had it on a few kitchens

 

[Briggs69]

It’s called a hybrid ring circuit.its perfectly legal.as long as it’s into a junction box or a 30amp switch.niceic have a drawing somewhere showing you it.had it on a few kitchens[/QUOTE]

 

[Grey Master]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a hybrid ring circuit.
I discovered this a few years ago, told a customer it was not allowed and promptly fried their server in the process of "correcting" it.
Look it up -perfectly acceptable as long as the connections are accessible

 

[westward10]

How on earth did you fry their server by correcting it.