spuring if a ring

[nicsin02]

Having a debate regarding spurs from a ring circuit, my lecturer at my 2391 course a few year back claimed that it was ok to have 1 spur per socket in a ring circuit, I know it ain't good practise but I can't find anything in regs book to confirm or deny point, any help much appreciated, cheers

 

[dingledong]

66 just starting . Time flies

 

[chris murphy]

Because it is easier and cheaper and in many circumstances perfectly adequate. Also it has been a standard practice for so long there waould likely be a peasants revolt if the suits ever decided to regulate against the practice.

"Hello wirepuller",

Thanks for your reply.

I thought that would be the answer that I got - I still cannot see why this would have been considered `good practice` when FIRST decided as an `addition` to a Ring Circuit ?

Do You happen to know if I am correct that Ring Circuits are a relatively `new` installation method - perhaps instigated in the 1940`s or 1950`s ?

Perhaps prior to that all Domestic power circuits were Radial and because of that `Spur Sockets` were considered perfectly O.K. to add to Ring Circuits ?

IF I were to ever require an additional Socket outlet in my Home I still would not wire it as a Spur - I would use 2 Junction boxes and 2 lengths of 2.5 T&E and `extend the Ring Circuit` - just because I personally view it as a better way to add a Socket.

As I originally stated I do not mean any offence to Professional Electricians with that statement.

Regards,

Chris

 

[Pete999]

66 3/4 way through Apprenticeship, halcyon days

 

[Pete999]

"Hello wirepuller",

Thanks for your reply.

I thought that would be the answer that I got - I still cannot see why this would have been considered `good practice` when FIRST decided as an `addition` to a Ring Circuit ?

Do You happen to know if I am correct that Ring Circuits are a relatively `new` installation method - perhaps instigated in the 1940`s or 1950`s ?

Perhaps prior to that all Domestic power circuits were Radial and because of that `Spur Sockets` were considered perfectly O.K. to add to Ring Circuits ?

IF I were to ever require an additional Socket outlet in my Home I still would not wire it as a Spur - I would use 2 Junction boxes and 2 lengths of 2.5 T&E and `extend the Ring Circuit` - just because I personally view it as a better way to add a Socket.

As I originally stated I do not mean any offence to Professional Electricians with that statement.

Regards,

Chris

If you do it you must make sure breaking into the Ring leg and not a spur someone has put in prior to your work

 

[ipf]

HA HA, don't knock the 14th ed, at least all the materials were of good quality. lol going up in smoke no chance.

Who's knocking it? Why do you think I grin/winked.....

 

[davesparks]

"Hello wirepuller",

Thanks for your reply.

I thought that would be the answer that I got - I still cannot see why this would have been considered `good practice` when FIRST decided as an `addition` to a Ring Circuit ?

Do You happen to know if I am correct that Ring Circuits are a relatively `new` installation method - perhaps instigated in the 1940`s or 1950`s ?

Perhaps prior to that all Domestic power circuits were Radial and because of that `Spur Sockets` were considered perfectly O.K. to add to Ring Circuits ?

IF I were to ever require an additional Socket outlet in my Home I still would not wire it as a Spur - I would use 2 Junction boxes and 2 lengths of 2.5 T&E and `extend the Ring Circuit` - just because I personally view it as a better way to add a Socket.

As I originally stated I do not mean any offence to Professional Electricians with that statement.

Regards,

Chris

It is very bad practice to have junction boxes hidden under the floor, and if they are the wrong type of junction box it is forbidden by the regulations completely.

Every junction box you add is a point of potential failure, adding 2 joints when you can do it with one is effectively doubling the potential for a failure.

The best way to do it is either spur from an existing socket, or remove one leg of the ring from an existing socket and route it to your new socket then install a new piece of cable to join the ring back up.

 

[chris murphy]

If you do it you must make sure breaking into the Ring leg and not a spur someone has put in prior to your work

"Hello Pete999",

Thanks for mentioning that very important point.

As I was commenting about perhaps needing an additional Socket outlet at my Home I do know how the Ring Circuits were run during a Full Rewire about 10 Years ago because I took up all the Floorboards and drilled most of the Joist holes to help the Electrician to carry out the Rewire more quickly and get my House ready for new Carpets at that time.

Although I had no expectation that I would need to alter or extend any of the Cable runs I made a point of labelling any Cable runs that I might forget in the future.

Labelled at about every 2 Metres throughout the House as I would with a Gas pipe - this was no trouble at all as I had all of the Floorboards up for the Cable runs and I obviously ensured that I had everything correctly labelled by asking about each run getting the Electrician to check what I had done.

Thanks again for your interest and the information.

Regards,

Chris

 

[Pete999]

"Hello Pete999",

Thanks for mentioning that very important point.

As I was commenting about perhaps needing an additional Socket outlet at my Home I do know how the Ring Circuits were run during a Full Rewire about 10 Years ago because I took up all the Floorboards and drilled most of the Joist holes to help the Electrician to carry out the Rewire more quickly and get my House ready for new Carpets at that time.

Although I had no expectation that I would need to alter or extend any of the Cable runs I made a point of labelling any Cable runs that I might forget in the future.

Labelled at about every 2 Metres throughout the House as I would with a Gas pipe - this was no trouble at all as I had all of the Floorboards up for the Cable runs and I obviously ensured that I had everything correctly labelled by asking about each run getting the Electrician to check what I had done.

Thanks again for your interest and the information.

Regards,

Chris

You're welcome mate

 

[7029 dave]

Who's knocking it? Why do you think I grin/winked.....

:tree:
Hairy muff

 

[ipf]

:tree:
Hairy muff

:gorgeous:
Mmmmmmmm

 

[chris murphy]

It is very bad practice to have junction boxes hidden under the floor, and if they are the wrong type of junction box it is forbidden by the regulations completely.

Every junction box you add is a point of potential failure, adding 2 joints when you can do it with one is effectively doubling the potential for a failure.



The best way to do it is either spur from an existing socket, or remove one leg of the ring from an existing socket and route it to your new socket then install a new piece of cable to join the ring back up.

"Hello Davesparks",

Sorry I missed your reply until just now - I must have been writing my reply to Pete999 when You posted your message after which I had Dinner.

Where it was possible without a lot of disruption to the property [e.g. Carpets in other Rooms] I would carry out the process that You mentioned here to add a Socket outlet:

`The best way to do it is either spur from an existing socket, or remove one leg of the ring from an existing socket and route it to your new socket then install a new piece of cable to join the ring back up`.

Although I did not mention this in my original message I would not cut a Ring Circuit and use 2 Junction boxes near to an existing Socket outlet.

In fact my original description of using 2 Junction boxes was from Me just imagining for example adding a Socket in my Home`s Hallway - as my Wife has pointed out that She would like another one at the far end of our Hallway for using a Vacuum Cleaner without a short extension lead - that is the only Socket that I did not think of / specify when the Rewire of my Home was done - and this is only a minor issue because our Vacuum Cleaner has a much shorter lead on it than the one We had 10 Years ago.

To fit an additional Socket at the end of my Home`s Hallway It would be too much disruption to the Carpets etc. in the Living Room to be able to wire a Socket as You described - it view of what You mentioned about the Junction boxes being possible `Failure points` We will be continuing with the short extension lead rather than fitting an additional socket using 2 Junction boxes.

Thanks again for your comments and information.

Regards,

Chris