Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians"

[highspark]

How can we put an end to this drivel? Why is there people out there unqualified and inexperienced bluffing their way into work. Taking work from fully qualified time served lads?Theres a couple in my area. Driving round in vans with schemes tatooed all over them. They look the biz - the outfit. But I know they are not electricians. They are chancers bluffing their way through. The 17th Edition minimum requirement to have a schemes backing...its a farce. The problem I have is the customers can't differenciate from a fully qualified. 17th edition, 2391, tech cert nvq3 electrician from a 17th edition short course idiot! It boils my blood

 

[UNG]

Quote
Making off Pryo!!


Stand by a bloody great dist board,in a windy corridor making sub main pyro ends off when its below freezing and your feet have taken root to the concrete floor and you have forgotten your hands used to have fingers on the ends of them, and you may wish that it "was" out of date

Not a chance I love working with Pyro

There is a very big difference between domestic work and commercial/industrial as we all know.

Yes, electricity is always dangerous, regardless of where the installation is, but simple domestic installations need a lot less knowledge than industrial. Less knowledge, less to learn, shorter course...

In all my years in the industry the C&G have never split the 236, 2360 or 2330 cert down with domestic, commercial and industrial modules it's always been all or nothing and should still be

Apprenticeship is NOT an option for an adult, so there HAVE to be other methods of entry. Exactly as I was saying earlier, there HAD to be another method to becoming a pilot other than being in the RAF. Schemes were introduced and the standard of commercial flying has never been higher....

Can't find any fly an A380 in 5 weeks courses on the web. Is it the pilots who have raised the level or all the electronic gizmos that take over once it is in the air

 

[Engineer54]

Some of the questions posted on this forum are ridiculously stupid questions...that is evident.

However, on a forum such as this...you are only ever going to get to see the questions from guys that need the help and advice...that is the whole point of a Q&A forum !

and you are not getting any idea of how many don't need advice, and have a good and sufficient knowledge of the subject area...

I am sure there are also many proficient DIs that do not ask such ridiculous and basic questions... and if you knew exactly how many DIs are out there working already and that do not ask questions ...then you could make a better informed judgement.

i.e. there are 5000 DIs working in the UK...and we have received 250 stupid questions...therefore there are 95% that haven't asked a silly question !


Consider this scenario of a car mechanic working for Renault for example...this mechanic only sees the broken down and problematic Renaults...the common faults...the 30 gearbox problems a quarter year...the broken cambelts...the braking problems...

...And when asked by his friend whether Renaults are any good...he is somewhat biased against Renault cars...purely for this reason of only ever seeing the bad examples at work...and not the millions of cars that have been driving the roads problem free for years ! No-one brings a healthy car into a workshop for repair !
(ok so Renault might not be the best example Lol )


My whole point above being, that you seem to have a somewhat biased opinion based on a small 'sample of posts' that have asked some ridiculous questions in the past...

How can you tell these guys are not DIYers...or 1st year full time 2330 students...or likewise ?? Do they have DI or Electrical Trainee written on their signature ??


Personally, I am currently retraining from an electronics background...and have spent 15 yrs working in mobile phones design...and possibly in the past I may have had a hand in the chipset design of your own mobile phones ... that being said I would not expect you to be able to retrain and design a mobile phone within a couple of months of training ! but I could teach some of the fundamentals to someone with good general engineering knowledge...

Seems that you are assuming as much as me then, so how do you know that 95% of these Electrical Trainee aren't practicing there limited skills using the general public as there experience curve with no supervision whatsoever and leaving these jobs in less than a safe state??

What i can and will say with a good deal of confidence, is that an ex office worker that was sat behind his desk 5 to 7 weeks ago, is nowhere near competent to be entering peoples homes and carrying out electrical work!! There is also no-way they should be passing any assessment by these scheme providers as being competent, an encouraging the deskilling of electricians nonsense!! This is not the only forum where you constantly see these guy's asking basic and as you call it silly questions!!!

How can we tell they are DI's or Electrical Trainee's because they TELL us they are, we don't have to guess. There are some DIYer's that are probably more capable than some of these quick fix DI's. It seems to be getting so bad now, that we are only training to DI level these days. It'll not be too long, before we are importing qualified electricians, ...we'll be like the Middle East of Europe!!


Biased, ....You bet i'm biased, as all i can see, is your 5000 Electrical Trainee/DI's being ill trained and ill experienced and therefore not competent to be working in peoples homes without supervision. Most of whom consider themselves as qualified electricians!! I'm biased because they are part of the present scheme of things that is ruining the status of a once proud industry that i've been in, and a part of, all my working life.

 

[smiley1609]

No problem guys...I do honestly see both sides of the discussion. I don't wish to upset anyone on here...and can fully appreciate the large amount of guys that are retraining from completely different industries...and to what they ultimately think is to a fully trained spark.

I think that my original point of my post... is being that there may be (albeit a small percentage of) engineers retraining that are capable of the work to a good level of workmanship and able to carry out the install work / CU testing. I am a very proud engineer in what I have achieved since I began engineering training in a BTEC ONC during early 90s...and i guess that perhaps I may be one of the few percent that may not be classed under the umbrella of Electrical Trainee...

Sorry if I offended anyone in my previous post !

 

[nickblake]

Just to clarify ,as from the 1st of April 2013 you will have to be NVC level 3 to become part of a regestered scheme , it was suspended to come into line with a survay of Part P which will be presented at the same time

 

[highspark]

Just to clarify ,as from the 1st of April 2013 you will have to be NVC level 3 to become part of a regestered scheme , it was suspended to come into line with a survay of Part P which will be presented at the same time

It won't happen don't hold your breath! You will still have grandfather rights anyway! This course can be sat online without any site visits. i'm currently in the middle of it with Delta. If this comes in the training providers will just make this an easy qual too!

 

[Heisenberg]

It won't happen don't hold your breath! You will still have grandfather rights anyway! This course can be sat online without any site visits. i'm currently in the middle of it with Delta. If this comes in the training providers will just make this an easy qual too!

If you are so dismissive of this, why are you doing it? Not trying to start a row, just trying to understand why you have chosen to undertake a course that you don't hold in high regard?

 

[Marvo]

You will still have grandfather rights anyway!

I know I'm probably going to regret asking this but what on earth are 'grandfather rights'?

 

[highspark]

If you are so dismissive of this, why are you doing it? Not trying to start a row, just trying to understand why you have chosen to undertake a course that you don't hold in high regard?

Its not that I don't hold it in high regard. I'm doing it through Delta because its cheaper than through a college and it presents less hassle for me in regards to site visits. What I am saying is. Its an easy qualification to gain if you have the right amount of work and you go with the right people. The e-portfolio which I am doing is alot easier than having site visits and can be completed in 10 weeks. Yes 10 weeks from start to finish. However I already have the 17th Edition, 2391-10 and the 2330 2&3 tech certs the NVQ3 2356 will complete my qualifications get me a JIB gold card and ultimately opens doors for me, Australia, Canada etc. I am doing it because it will run out in july and I will no longer be able to match the 2330 tech certs with the new NVQ3 so ultimately it has to be done. If it becomes a requirement by schemes the training providers will water it down and make it alot easier. They will bring out a domestic NVQ3 that can be done in2 or 3 weeks an equivalent!

 

[highspark]

I know I'm probably going to regret asking this but what on earth are 'grandfather rights'?

If you are already Part P registered before the rule comes into action you will not need an NVQ3

 

[Marvo]

If you are already Part P registered before the rule comes into action you will not need an NVQ3

That's a relief, I was thinking it might mean if your grandfather was a sparky you were exempt from the NVQ3 requirements.

 

[Adam W]

I always thought 'grandfathers rights' was a scheme whereby someone who had been working in the industry for donkeys years could claim a gold card without having to do these 'new-fangled' C&G qualifications. I was also under the impression the time to claim grandfathers rights expired a few years ago.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Just to clarify ,as from the 1st of April 2013 you will have to be NVC level 3 to become part of a regestered scheme , it was suspended to come into line with a survay of Part P which will be presented at the same time

I thought you had to be anyway? So you could have joined a scheme in 2007 without even 2381 (I know, 16th) ? Is that RIGHT !!??

 

[SPARTYKUS]

That's a relief, I was thinking it might mean if your grandfather was a sparky you were exempt from the NVQ3 requirements.

exemption if grand mother is (because so rare & special)

 

[SPARTYKUS]

NovusSparkus...I mean Adam, yes, I think it is a mis use of the term perhaps.

I have some grandfathers in my garden too, helping support the fence. I (mistakenly) used to call them godfathers. Until I got the mickey taken.

 

[ample current]

i really think we need to find a way of distinguishing between the 5 week wonder people...

Big difference between someone who's never touched a screwdriver until he did the course, and a person with donkeys years of experience in other trades, or an engineering background, who does the 5 week course as it's the only way in.

It's really not fair to kick off about "domestic installers" like they're a lower form of life.

I'm new to the electrics game, but i can't do a 3 year apprenticeship. I can't afford to, i have a mortgage and bills to pay.

I'm doing a short course (not a £8k one, a "proper" one from a local place), but i'm also working my arse off with the books, i've got an engineering/maths background and have donkeys years of experience with plumbing/plastering/building work and plan to do everything to the very best of my ability and only when i feel confident to do it.

It's quite upsetting to have people talk about me like i'm scum of the earth because i'm not 16 years old and with the luxury of being able to do a full apprenticeship.

Of course there are people out there who are led astray by the bull**** from the "training providers" (give us £10k and you'll be god's gift to the sparky world), but there are also a hell of a lot of us who just want to do domestic work and earn an honest living.

"here here"