Your going to laugh lads!!!!!!! NVQ3 - Domestic!!!!!

[Electricalserv]

I love this little statement from Napit and this is going to ruffle a few feathers.

For those choosing the qualification route, the Level 3 NVQ Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installation Work in Dwellings should be available from the 1st January 2012 as the minimum qualification level for Qualified Supervisors responsible for electrical work carried out in domestic properties which comes under Part P of the Building Regulations (for England and Wales).


My bold!!!!

NVQ3 - for domestic premises will be available from 2012.

Looks like the City & Guilds NVQ3 now has a little sister.

 

[DurhamSparky]

i came in to he trade via a non electrical apprentice route!!! why should teh old boys be cheesed off!! its part and parcel of changing times!!

 

[Big n Daft]

Should have been a joiner!!!!

would you be a domestic joiner or commercial... first fix or second fix.. site or bench ???? imo if you cant do all your not a joiner !!!

Correct ask my 80 yr old dad

 

[lee72]

Should have been a joiner!!!!

would you be a domestic joiner or commercial... first fix or second fix.. site or bench ???? imo if you cant do all your not a joiner !!!

Correct ask my 80 yr old dad

joking aside... that`s sort of my point... years ago a joiner would be able to turn his hand to all aspects from bench, to site to roofing to shop-fitting etc.. all these are now individualize trades.. it`s just unfortunately a sign of the times, and i can`t ever see it going back to " the good old days".
i do hope that soon the powers that be licensed the electrical trade.. ( and not at the cost of the working spark ) whether apprentice trained or any other route. ( a good spark is a good spark.. fact).
this is a fantastic forum but recently just turning into a --- for tat troll fest.
thats my view... one last beer then bed !!

 

[geofff]

Have any of you considered becoming an NVQ assessor? good money I think, and the ability to NOT certify the incompetant. What more could you ask for?
I hold NVQ3, 2391, 2382 and 25+years experience. The NVQ can be used as a weapon to defend our trade, please use it as such. I have helped over 20 lads through their NVQ3, the wasters and incompetant have fallen by the wayside, their fault not mine.
As for the experienced sparky, the NVQ will cost you, you will have to put in a few bits of paperwork, you will have to be assessed, shouldn't be a drama. Once the fools are weeded out you may even see more work due to fewer "sparkies" being around.

 

[sparks_114]

Have any of you considered becoming an NVQ assessor? good money I think, and the ability to NOT certify the incompetant. What more could you ask for?
I hold NVQ3, 2391, 2382 and 25+years experience. The NVQ can be used as a weapon to defend our trade, please use it as such. I have helped over 20 lads through their NVQ3, the wasters and incompetant have fallen by the wayside, their fault not mine.
As for the experienced sparky, the NVQ will cost you, you will have to put in a few bits of paperwork, you will have to be assessed, shouldn't be a drama. Once the fools are weeded out you may even see more work due to fewer "sparkies" being around.

Perhaps in my twilight years when I am no good for the physical side of things. At the moment I am 30 so I'll do a bit more of the hard stuff I think and if I am still around much later then yes why not. And as a matter of fact many good sparks have moved onto education and scheme provider inspector positions to sign up (or reject?!) applicants. Well that's where the money is for sure!

 

[Paul.M]

I'm just going to paint a picture of what this segregated domestic only nvq will entail:- Please send in a picture of...... a 1 way and a two way lighting circuit, a ring final using 2.5, a radial socket circuit using 4mm, a cooker circuit, shower circuit, a c/u change incorporating the use of rcds, an extractor fan, an outside light or socket.. With your photos please enclose £1000+ vat. It's another way to get more money out of people getting into the trade. Do we have to take it if we already have tech quals? Probably. Who on here thinks that a "domestic nvq installer" will be paid the same wage as a time served spark with level 3 cert, not a chance, this will open up the flood gates for new domestic electricians and supply and demand springs to mind. Anyway let's just wait 6 months or so until er start getting questions on her like "can anyone give me a week of experience so I can complete my nvq Dom installer cert, I'll pay you!". Also look at the timing of this news, 6 months to get the new tech books written, printed and in the shops for Xmas with the new regs amendments. I my eyes they are putting out a small fire with an ocean of water. Let's see what happens by this time next year.

 

[baldsparkies]

I know I keep ranting but please be patient with this old boy whilst I rant a little more.
If a young lad decides to come into the trade, and follows a set recognised standard to follow and acheive his goal of becoming a qualified electrician, and thats exactly what I and others did 42 years ago. Then who or what has the right 40 years down the road to say your not qualified any more.
Ok its acceptable to say you might not be up to speed with current regualations, because technology is and will always be changing. The money grabbers have taken care of that with 16th and 17th edition upgrades. I accept that. My point is that there should as many years ago, be a recognised proggression to becoming a qualified electrician once you are, YOU ARE, end off. You have worked and studied hard to pass your exams, you now deserve to be deemed qualified, and now your qualified you can follow a life long path of learning and experiancing the many diverse routes you can and will follow along your life as a qualified electrician. That may well mean you are better at some things than others, depending on what road you take. You might become a first class domestic sparks, you might become a maintenance electrician and be super quick at fault finding and getting gear up and running quickly, you might become an industrial installation sparks and be sh#t hot with your tube and tray work. (Blimey look at Steve's sets there all identical the guys mustard) Does not matter though cus once qualified your qualified and no money grabbing **** should ever be allowed to insult any of us by changing that. End of rant.

 

[sbrown2]

I am slightly confused by this topic and the concern it is causing. Is it not a good idea to raise the qualifications required for the domestic installer? Does domestic include flats or mass living areas, swimming pools etc? What you would have is a guy with domestic electrical qualifications that are easily transferrable to other sectors.
I am curious as I have a mate who's lad is completing a similar NVQ relating to the built envoronment and seeing the log book he has demonstrates their are a lot of elements to be completed. Most on here should not be concerned as we have five months to ensure we do not require this qualification to become a QS. Just faxed my application of to NAPIT!!!!!!!!

 

[millwall ken]

I know I keep ranting but please be patient with this old boy whilst I rant a little more.
If a young lad decides to come into the trade, and follows a set recognised standard to follow and acheive his goal of becoming a qualified electrician, and thats exactly what I and others did 42 years ago. Then who or what has the right 40 years down the road to say your not qualified any more.
Ok its acceptable to say you might not be up to speed with current regualations, because technology is and will always be changing. The money grabbers have taken care of that with 16th and 17th edition upgrades. I accept that. My point is that there should as many years ago, be a recognised proggression to becoming a qualified electrician once you are, YOU ARE, end off. You have worked and studied hard to pass your exams, you now deserve to be deemed qualified, and now your qualified you can follow a life long path of learning and experiancing the many diverse routes you can and will follow along your life as a qualified electrician. That may well mean you are better at some things than others, depending on what road you take. You might become a first class domestic sparks, you might become a maintenance electrician and be super quick at fault finding and getting gear up and running quickly, you might become an industrial installation sparks and be sh#t hot with your tube and tray work. (Blimey look at Steve's sets there all identical the guys mustard) Does not matter though cus once qualified your qualified and no money grabbing **** should ever be allowed to insult any of us by changing that. End of rant.

That don't sound too much like a rant, more the truth.

 

[millwall ken]

I am slightly confused by this topic and the concern it is causing. Is it not a good idea to raise the qualifications required for the domestic installer? Does domestic include flats or mass living areas, swimming pools etc? What you would have is a guy with domestic electrical qualifications that are easily transferrable to other sectors.
I am curious as I have a mate who's lad is completing a similar NVQ relating to the built envoronment and seeing the log book he has demonstrates their are a lot of elements to be completed. Most on here should not be concerned as we have five months to ensure we do not require this qualification to become a QS. Just faxed my application of to NAPIT!!!!!!!!

Mate, NO ONE is disputing that the domestic sector needs tightening up - and for that the powers-that-be should be congratulated for getting off of their lazy a**** and getting the ball rolling. But I believe that most of us on here are just too cynical to believe that 'anyone' (HM Govt, C&G, JIB, KGB or whoever) are doing this to help the little man. As I've stated earlier, I'm going to withold judgement until I see the actual qualification criterior.

 

[AP Electrical]

I personally feel this will end in a two-teir system with domestic on one side and commercial/industrial on the other, the nic, elecsa and napit are going to need to keep there turnover stable and as I've said the current tech cert could easily be condensed into a couple of weeks if just focused on domestic and a bit of H&S - dont see why jib wouldnt water tech cert down it's not like domestic need to know how a cage motor works or about phasor diagrams, if this did happen then i cant see domestic sparks being elevated in the industry, it'll just mean the 5DW become a grand lighter and then inaugurated as electrical trainee (week wonders!?!) pardon the pun but it just seem there trying to justify part p , its been a disaster and when it's reviewed in oct'11 they want to say 'yes we got some things wrong but look at this Nvq domestic thats how we'll sort it'. also If c&g did keep the syllabus for the 2356 (ind/comm/dom) that would put a definate line in the sand making domestic sparks the little brother to an approved spark - that cant be a good thing.
if theres devision on here now imagine when theres domestic vs commercial .....lol

 

[millwall ken]

I personally feel this will end in a two-teir system with domestic on one side and commercial/industrial on the other, the nic, elecsa and napit are going to need to keep there turnover stable and as I've said the current tech cert could easily be condensed into a couple of weeks if just focused on domestic and a bit of H&S - dont see why jib wouldnt water tech cert down it's not like domestic need to know how a cage motor works or about phasor diagrams, if this did happen then i cant see domestic sparks being elevated in the industry, it'll just mean the 5DW become a grand lighter and then inaugurated as electrical trainee (week wonders!?!) pardon the pun but it just seem there trying to justify part p , its been a disaster and when it's reviewed in oct'11 they want to say 'yes we got some things wrong but look at this Nvq domestic thats how we'll sort it'. also If c&g did keep the syllabus for the 2356 (ind/comm/dom) that would put a definate line in the sand making domestic sparks the little brother to an approved spark - that cant be a good thing.
if theres devision on here now imagine when theres domestic vs commercial .....lol

Which I believe is what a lot of people in the authorities want. Like something from the US...
I want to know for example: If you are a commercial spark, are YOU going to be allowed to do domestic work with your current quals, or are you going to have to do this new qual as well.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I know I keep ranting but please be patient with this old boy whilst I rant a little more.
If a young lad decides to come into the trade, and follows a set recognised standard to follow and acheive his goal of becoming a qualified electrician, and thats exactly what I and others did 42 years ago. Then who or what has the right 40 years down the road to say your not qualified any more.
Ok its acceptable to say you might not be up to speed with current regualations, because technology is and will always be changing. The money grabbers have taken care of that with 16th and 17th edition upgrades. I accept that. My point is that there should as many years ago, be a recognised proggression to becoming a qualified electrician once you are, YOU ARE, end off. You have worked and studied hard to pass your exams, you now deserve to be deemed qualified, and now your qualified you can follow a life long path of learning and experiancing the many diverse routes you can and will follow along your life as a qualified electrician. That may well mean you are better at some things than others, depending on what road you take. You might become a first class domestic sparks, you might become a maintenance electrician and be super quick at fault finding and getting gear up and running quickly, you might become an industrial installation sparks and be sh#t hot with your tube and tray work. (Blimey look at Steve's sets there all identical the guys mustard) Does not matter though cus once qualified your qualified and no money grabbing **** should ever be allowed to insult any of us by changing that. End of rant.

If you go back to post #36 where Serv attached the Draft proposal for this JIB Domestic Electrician Card on the part concerning admittance criteria it says that a gold card installation electrician, not even an approved, can have this title added onto the card. I believe also that there is going to be another card for PV installer, but again a gold card electrician can have this added to his card if they have done the PV course.

As far as I can see the electrician that was lucky enough to have taken the apprentice route with the old style qualifications of either B C or the 236 will not need to do this new NVQ.

 

[IQ Electrical]

If you go back to post #36 where Serv attached the Draft proposal for this JIB Domestic Electrician Card on the part concerning admittance criteria it says that a gold card installation electrician, not even an approved, can have this title added onto the card. I believe also that there is going to be another card for PV installer, but again a gold card electrician can have this added to his card if they have done the PV course.

As far as I can see the electrician that was lucky enough to have taken the apprentice route with the old style qualifications of either B C or the 236 will not need to do this new NVQ.

I agree, that's the way it looks based on the (sparse) information currently available.

 

[topquark]

Should have been a joiner!!!!

would you be a domestic joiner or commercial... first fix or second fix.. site or bench ???? imo if you cant do all your not a joiner !!!... ... just a little joke lads..
to lighten the mood !! arty3:

First fix defo, coz you don't need half as many tools

Can't see that the proposed change is going to change much apart from benefiting the course providers. Minimum of a degree please :dunce2: